After being on this site for a while, I have three possible ideas for timelines. They are posted in both the order I thought of them, and consequently, how fleshed out each one is.
No Cyril and Methodius timeline (A Brother's Misstep): Cyril (Constantine in this timeline) joins his brother Methodius on their mission to the Khazars in 861. Before arriving, they are captured by Magyars living in Etelkoz, south of Kiev. Cyril makes a mistake while talking to the leader of the Magyars, Álmos, leading to both of them being killed.
From that initial POD things butterfly dramatically. Without the split between Christianity and Islam at his religious debate in 861 (while waiting for Cyril and Methodius, the Christian debaters to show up, the Muslim cleric convinces Khagan Bulan to start the debate early), the cleric convinces Bulan to convert to Islam, thus a Muslim Khazaria.
Other notable effects: There is no botched Christianization of the Rus' Khaganate, so that state does not collapse. Rorik of Dorestad (who we know as Rurik, the founder of the Rurikid dynasty) does not go east to establish a state, and instead remains ruling in the OTL Netherlands. In the 870s he returns to Denmark to claim the throne and goes on a campaign to unite all the old lands of Denmark. This leads to him killing Harald Fairahair, and a disunited Norway, which then leads to a larger Danish victory at Ashdown and eventually a Norse England.
The Byzantines are shaken by the deaths of Cyril and Methodius, even more so when the Khazars break their alliance in 862. The Khazars raid Byzantium while the Arab Omar of Melitene attacks the eastern portion of Byzantium. In 863 a battle takes place known as the Battle of Poson, which we could consider an "Arab Manzikert." The Byzantines are crushed and then collapse into civil war and a Third Iconoclast Movement. The victory leads to an Abbasid revival on all fronts, especially Persia and Anatolia.
The Carolingians collapse much differently ITTL. Without the decline in health caused by the attack on Benevento requested by Basil I (who is not emperor ITTL), Holy Roman Emperor Louis II lives longer. He outlives both Louis the German and Charles the Bald, and at his death Carloman of Bavaria claims Italy. This eventually leads to a Bavaria-Italy-Burgundy personal union, West Francia divided between Neustria and Aquitaine, and a collapsed East Francia.
The End of Rome (AKA Gallienus dies in 260): Valerian is captured and killed by the Sassanids AIOTL in 260. The POD: his son Gallienus announces his father's death shortly after he receives word of it. Gallienus is subsequently killed by his soldiers, and the Roman Empire is plunged into chaos. Postumus declares himself Gallic Emperor and takes control of Gaul, Britannia, and Hispania. The Macriani family seize Egypt and much of the east. However, ITTL Odaenathus stays loyal to the Sassanids and aids in their capture of Anatolia and the Levant. The Macriani are overthrown by Mussius Aemilianus (Prefect of Egypt) who declares the foundation of the Alexandrian Empire. Shortly afterwards Egypt is overrun by the Sassanids. This promts Memor to declare the African Empire founded, removing the last vestiges of Roman Rule.
At the same time, the remnants of Rome are facing countless invasions from nomadic peoples. The Goths pour into the Balkans virtually unopposed by the weak usurpers. The Alamanni have free reign in Italy, while the Sarmatians and Rhoxolani settle in Pannonia. The Heruli create a thalassocracy in the Aeagean, and other German peoples pour into Rome. Posumus and his successors are able to keep the Gallic Empire together and the Germanic peoples out, and Memor's African Empire survives too. But the rest of Rome is gone, consumed by the Persians and the Germanic tribes. Neither of the remaining Roman successors show desire to retake Rome, they are too busy defending themselves.
Richard the Great (AKA the Plantagenet Holy Roman Empire): The idea for this timeline was inspired by a map I saw a while back (in Map Thread III, I think) which showed an Anglo-German personal union which included most of Italy but not the Lombard League. I decided to flesh out the idea, and see how I could get this situation to work out. Here is what I came up with:
The POD in this is that the Ghuelps achieve a total victory in the Battle of Cortenuova in 1237, after Frederick's Apulian archers fail to arrive. Thus Emperor Frederick II lies dead in Italy. His weak and underage successor Conrad IV is forced to recognize the independence of the Lombard League from the Holy Roman Empire. In the aftermath, Henry VII (the imprisoned son of Frederick II) manages to escape and return to Germany, where he overthrows Conrad IV and is crowned King of the Romans. During this time, a longer-lived Pope Gregory IX sells the Kingdom of Sicily to Richard of Cornwall in an effort to detach Sicily from the Holy Roman Empire. This plan backfires because it gives Richard a taste of the Holy Roman Empire, and he likes in. In the 1250s, after the death of Henry's son Frederick III, Richard travels to Germany and manages to get himself crowned king, and eventually Holy Roman Emperor.
Meanwhile, things have begun to diverge in England. IOTL, King Henry III wasted a lot of the English treasury trying to secure Sicily for his son Edward Longshanks (the future Edward I of England in OTL). This lead to Simon de Montfort's rebellion and the Second Barons' War of England. But without this distraction, Henry is able to focus on his ambition of turning England into a French-style absolute monarchy. He is partially successful, but in the late 1260s the barons rise up in rebellion. Henry is killed in the fighting and his son Edward is captured. In 1270, Edward dies in captivity, and since Henry had no other heirs ITTL, the throne passes to Holy Roman Emperor Richard I. He sets sail to claim England, while in the meantime the rebellious barons have set up a republic called the "Most Serene Republic of England." Richard crushes the rebels and is crowned King of England.
Having inherited claims to Jerusalem, Cyprus, and Thessalonica from the Hohenstaufens (Frederick II died before he could give Thessalonica to Boniface II of Montferrat), after getting Sicily Richard orchestrates a crusade. In 1249 the pope (not sure who it will be yet) sends an envoy to the Mongol commander Eljigidei (a Christian sympathizer) offering an alliance against the Muslims of Egypt, the Levant, and Anatolia. Eljigidei accepts, and in the next few years embarks on a massive spate of conquest. He destroys the Abbasids, overruns Anatolia, and in 1250 defeats the emerging Mamluk state and conquers Egypt. This leads to Great Khan Guyuk surviving and conquering Hungary and Poland, an Il-khanid conquest of the Delhi Sultanate, and other things.
As you can see, the Plantagenet idea is the least fleshed out, due to my only having the idea a few days ago. But now I'll put it to a vote. Which of these ideas seem to be the most interesting, which would you be like to read? If none, please state why. Thanks for your time.
No Cyril and Methodius timeline (A Brother's Misstep): Cyril (Constantine in this timeline) joins his brother Methodius on their mission to the Khazars in 861. Before arriving, they are captured by Magyars living in Etelkoz, south of Kiev. Cyril makes a mistake while talking to the leader of the Magyars, Álmos, leading to both of them being killed.
From that initial POD things butterfly dramatically. Without the split between Christianity and Islam at his religious debate in 861 (while waiting for Cyril and Methodius, the Christian debaters to show up, the Muslim cleric convinces Khagan Bulan to start the debate early), the cleric convinces Bulan to convert to Islam, thus a Muslim Khazaria.
Other notable effects: There is no botched Christianization of the Rus' Khaganate, so that state does not collapse. Rorik of Dorestad (who we know as Rurik, the founder of the Rurikid dynasty) does not go east to establish a state, and instead remains ruling in the OTL Netherlands. In the 870s he returns to Denmark to claim the throne and goes on a campaign to unite all the old lands of Denmark. This leads to him killing Harald Fairahair, and a disunited Norway, which then leads to a larger Danish victory at Ashdown and eventually a Norse England.
The Byzantines are shaken by the deaths of Cyril and Methodius, even more so when the Khazars break their alliance in 862. The Khazars raid Byzantium while the Arab Omar of Melitene attacks the eastern portion of Byzantium. In 863 a battle takes place known as the Battle of Poson, which we could consider an "Arab Manzikert." The Byzantines are crushed and then collapse into civil war and a Third Iconoclast Movement. The victory leads to an Abbasid revival on all fronts, especially Persia and Anatolia.
The Carolingians collapse much differently ITTL. Without the decline in health caused by the attack on Benevento requested by Basil I (who is not emperor ITTL), Holy Roman Emperor Louis II lives longer. He outlives both Louis the German and Charles the Bald, and at his death Carloman of Bavaria claims Italy. This eventually leads to a Bavaria-Italy-Burgundy personal union, West Francia divided between Neustria and Aquitaine, and a collapsed East Francia.
The End of Rome (AKA Gallienus dies in 260): Valerian is captured and killed by the Sassanids AIOTL in 260. The POD: his son Gallienus announces his father's death shortly after he receives word of it. Gallienus is subsequently killed by his soldiers, and the Roman Empire is plunged into chaos. Postumus declares himself Gallic Emperor and takes control of Gaul, Britannia, and Hispania. The Macriani family seize Egypt and much of the east. However, ITTL Odaenathus stays loyal to the Sassanids and aids in their capture of Anatolia and the Levant. The Macriani are overthrown by Mussius Aemilianus (Prefect of Egypt) who declares the foundation of the Alexandrian Empire. Shortly afterwards Egypt is overrun by the Sassanids. This promts Memor to declare the African Empire founded, removing the last vestiges of Roman Rule.
At the same time, the remnants of Rome are facing countless invasions from nomadic peoples. The Goths pour into the Balkans virtually unopposed by the weak usurpers. The Alamanni have free reign in Italy, while the Sarmatians and Rhoxolani settle in Pannonia. The Heruli create a thalassocracy in the Aeagean, and other German peoples pour into Rome. Posumus and his successors are able to keep the Gallic Empire together and the Germanic peoples out, and Memor's African Empire survives too. But the rest of Rome is gone, consumed by the Persians and the Germanic tribes. Neither of the remaining Roman successors show desire to retake Rome, they are too busy defending themselves.
Richard the Great (AKA the Plantagenet Holy Roman Empire): The idea for this timeline was inspired by a map I saw a while back (in Map Thread III, I think) which showed an Anglo-German personal union which included most of Italy but not the Lombard League. I decided to flesh out the idea, and see how I could get this situation to work out. Here is what I came up with:
The POD in this is that the Ghuelps achieve a total victory in the Battle of Cortenuova in 1237, after Frederick's Apulian archers fail to arrive. Thus Emperor Frederick II lies dead in Italy. His weak and underage successor Conrad IV is forced to recognize the independence of the Lombard League from the Holy Roman Empire. In the aftermath, Henry VII (the imprisoned son of Frederick II) manages to escape and return to Germany, where he overthrows Conrad IV and is crowned King of the Romans. During this time, a longer-lived Pope Gregory IX sells the Kingdom of Sicily to Richard of Cornwall in an effort to detach Sicily from the Holy Roman Empire. This plan backfires because it gives Richard a taste of the Holy Roman Empire, and he likes in. In the 1250s, after the death of Henry's son Frederick III, Richard travels to Germany and manages to get himself crowned king, and eventually Holy Roman Emperor.
Meanwhile, things have begun to diverge in England. IOTL, King Henry III wasted a lot of the English treasury trying to secure Sicily for his son Edward Longshanks (the future Edward I of England in OTL). This lead to Simon de Montfort's rebellion and the Second Barons' War of England. But without this distraction, Henry is able to focus on his ambition of turning England into a French-style absolute monarchy. He is partially successful, but in the late 1260s the barons rise up in rebellion. Henry is killed in the fighting and his son Edward is captured. In 1270, Edward dies in captivity, and since Henry had no other heirs ITTL, the throne passes to Holy Roman Emperor Richard I. He sets sail to claim England, while in the meantime the rebellious barons have set up a republic called the "Most Serene Republic of England." Richard crushes the rebels and is crowned King of England.
Having inherited claims to Jerusalem, Cyprus, and Thessalonica from the Hohenstaufens (Frederick II died before he could give Thessalonica to Boniface II of Montferrat), after getting Sicily Richard orchestrates a crusade. In 1249 the pope (not sure who it will be yet) sends an envoy to the Mongol commander Eljigidei (a Christian sympathizer) offering an alliance against the Muslims of Egypt, the Levant, and Anatolia. Eljigidei accepts, and in the next few years embarks on a massive spate of conquest. He destroys the Abbasids, overruns Anatolia, and in 1250 defeats the emerging Mamluk state and conquers Egypt. This leads to Great Khan Guyuk surviving and conquering Hungary and Poland, an Il-khanid conquest of the Delhi Sultanate, and other things.
As you can see, the Plantagenet idea is the least fleshed out, due to my only having the idea a few days ago. But now I'll put it to a vote. Which of these ideas seem to be the most interesting, which would you be like to read? If none, please state why. Thanks for your time.
