Punjab has too many Muslims for India to annex and Iranian plans for a Pakistan breakup was to annex Balochistan
Map Thread XXII
- Thread starter Balkanized U.S.A
- Start date
Is that OTL Moundsville?Scans of a tourist brochure prop from the Silent Hill movie. It was auctioned alongside other props from the film following its release.
Looked up the place you mentioned, it kinda looks like it. From what I read, the film version of Silent Hill is in between Ohio and West Virgina. I was actually thinking of Ravenswood, which is seen on the West Virgina map.
The present day in the Kaiserreich Timeline in a scenario where the Reichspakt wind hard and successfully defends the German hegemony. Some notes on the different countries (feel free to ask for more lore if you wish):
- Germany went SWR Conservative Revolution path which moderated after the war. Still technically a parliamentary monarchy, the Emperor and the aristorcracy hold significant power and the only legal parties are those asscoiated with the SWR Coalition (not technically a party): Zentrum, National Liberal, DkP and DVLP.
- The Habsurg peacefully reformed their lands and remained outside of the 2WK. A parliamentart democracy, albeit one with a strong monarchy, the Crown's heavy investment into the film industry and the country's generally less oppressive atmosphere ensure that Vienna remains the beating heart of the European cultural sphere. The country also boasts a robust financial, industrial, and agricultural sector, and is one of the world leaders in clean energy usage. The Habsburg consistently have the highest public approval ratings of any royal house in the world.
- Northern Italy was unified by the Federation under the leadership of the Grand Duke of Tuscany. Aligning with the Habsburgs after the Second Risorgimento, they also dropped their claims on the Papacy and the also Habsurg-aligned Two Sicilies. Reunifying peacefully with Sardinia, both of the major Italian states are conservative dominated parliamentary monarchies, Italy an elective one and the Two Sicilies a hereditary one.
- The Royalist government won the Spanish Civil War, ruled by King Jaime after the asassination of King Juan during the war by anarchist terrorists. Being the Legitimist claimant to France and having heavily aided Germany in the 2WK, Jaime successfully lobbied the Germans to be restored in France upon the end of the German military administration. Both countries are in personal union, with treaties of common citizenship, currency, and defensive pacts between them. Both are conservative monarchies based in the German SWR model.
- Upon the end of the German military administration in Britain, the country was divided in two. Scotland with Mann was made independent and the King of Bavaria as the Jacobite claimant was installed as King of Scotland and Lord of Mann. Charles Edward, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was installed as Charles III of England and both of the German monarchs renounced their claims on each others crowns. Both remain in personal union with Bavaria and Saxe-Coburg and Gotha respectively.
- Bulgaria handily defeated the Belgrade Pact in basically a Balkan version of the Franco-Prussian War, then took Thrace and Constantinople and helped Greece take Smyrna and Cyprus after the Ottoman Empire lost to the Cairo Pact and Iran.
- Germany restored the Russian monarchy under Vladimir Kirillovich after their utter defeat in the war and the end of the German military administration. They were also forced to become a federal state with lots of autonomy granted to the constituent states, because Germany felt that this would weaken them in case of a future Round 3.
- Ottomans lost to the Cairo Pact. The Kemalist dictatorship was overthrown in the aftermath of the war and the newborn Sultanate of Turkey became a liberal parliamentary monarchy.
- Syria and Lebanon are democratic republics. Iraq is an authoritarian one. Assyria is a Christian theocracy. The Arabian states, Iran, and Afghanistan are all absolute monarchies, as are Khiva and Bukhara. Alash Orda and Turkestan are authoritarian republics.
- India was unified by the Princely Federation which restored the old Princely States in the north and implemented a federal conservative elective monarchy based on the German SWR model. The goverments of the individual Princely States can range from anywhere between absolute monarchies to crowned republics.
- China was unified by a pro-German Zhili Clique-ruled Qing Empire. They are also a federal conservative monarchy based on the German SWR model. The Bogd Khanate of Mongolia, the Kumul Khanate, and the State of Tibet are all autonomous monarchies within the Empire of the Great Qing.
- Both India and China helped out the Germans greatly during the 2WK, forming the Eastern Front of the Reichspakt alongside the Kingdom of Burma, the Kingdom of Thailand, the Deutch-Ostasien, the Kingdom of Insulindia, and the Republic of the Philippines. India and China were rewarded after the war with German Ceylon and India and the German concessions in China respectively. While the Chinese concessions were fully reintegrated into China, Ceylon and Pondicherry were integrated as Princely States within India. This does mean that the German Emperor could theoretically be elected Emperor of India, but the chances of this actually happening are so low that nobody bothers to take it into account.
- EDIT: The hyper-ultranationalist government of Japan attempted to pull a surprise attack on the Deutch-Ostasien during the 2WK while still at war with most of China. The Eastern Front of the Reichspakt was formed mostly to deal with them, though they did send some token troops to Europe as well. The combines navies of the Reichspakt blew through the Japanese navy and China and India's combined massive manpower was enough subdue even the Japanese Home Islands. After the war, Taiwan and Korea were ceded to China, who restored the Joseon dynasty. Sakhalin was ceded to Transamur, which had relinquished its claims to Russia after the death of Kolchak and the ascension of the Siberian Regionalists. The Home Islands were placed under Reichspakt military occupation for a while before transitioning to a civilian administration. Modern Japan is a deindustrialised, agrarian, crowned republic, with one of the most powerful parliaments in the world. Modern Tramsamur is a thriving parliamentary republic and modern Korea is a conservative monarchy based on the German SWR model.
- The Deutch-Ostasien eventually sort of decolonised into a federal conservative monarchy based on the German SWR model and remaining in personal union with Germany as the East Asian Federation. The Dutch East Indies were transformed into a federal parliamentary monarchy known as the Kingdom of Insulindia, which is, along with the Kingdom of the Netherlands and the Kingdom of Guyana, a contituent kingdom of the Orange-Nassau Realm.
- Egypt reformed into a liberal democratic parliamentary monarchy and won the War in the Desert. The Sultnate of Darfur and the South Sudanese provinces were granted significant autonomy later in the 20th century.
- Ethiopia reformed into a conservative moanrchy based on the German SWR model and defeated Somalia to retake the Ogaden.
- The Deutch-Mittelafrika would follow the same path as the Deutch-Ostasien and sort of decolonise into a federal conservative monarchy based on the German SWR model and remaining in personal union with Germany. They formally integrated the British colonies (which were technically only under German administration until the return of the rightful government in London) by recognising Charles III's English government as the successor state to the pre-Revoltuion UK and having him cede the British protectorates to Mittelafrika, then accede the directly ruled British territories as constituent states of the Central African Federation which remain in personal union with England.
- The Portuguese and Spanish colonies were directly integrated into the metropole. Their inhabitants have the same rights, responsibilities, and quality of life as inhabitant of the Iberian peninsula. (Granted, this is not saying much given the Spanish government system, see above, and the Portuguese are an authoritarian Catholic monarchy.)
- The French Government-in-Exile never returned to the Metropole, though most of the Exiles did after the German military administration offered them the return of their former properties, monetary compensation for damages committed by the Revolutionaries, the restoration of the Church, and the potential to influence the new French government. Petain was forced to grant democratic concessions and more rights for the natives in order to maintain the Goverment-in-Exile, which was formally abolished with his death and the Parliament's proclamation of the African Union, a federal parliamentary republic consisting of the former French National State, with the exception of the Kingdom of Tunisia which declared independence with Egyptian aid.
- South Africa became a pro-British liberal monarchy under Jan Smuts' South Africa Party. After his anti-apartheid reforms ensured that the National Party would never form a government again, the South Africa Party ruled the country unopposed for a decade until the rise of the Labour Party in the 50s. A parliamentary monarchy in the present day, it remains in personal union with Canada, Australasia, and the West Indies Federation, with HRH Prince Alfred, Duke of Toronto (and York and Albany in pretense) as the current Governor-General.
- Canada was never able to Reclaim the Birthright after the German invasion of the Home Isles and the failure of the Halifax Conference. The Windsors remain monarchs of Canada, in personal union with South Africa, the West Indies Federation, and Australasia, the latter of which is a parliamentary monarchy with HRH Alfred, Prince of Quebec (and Wales in pretense) as the current Governor-General. The West Indies Federation is also a parliamentary monarchy, the current Governor-General is HRH Prince George, Duke of Montreal (and Wessex in pretense). The four realms have a common citizenship, currency, and military. The current monarch is Elizabeth II, who inherited from her childless uncle King Edward VIII in 1969, as her father had predeceased them both. Canada is also a parliamentary monarchy. The Canadian monarch still claims to be Queen of Great Britain and Ireland, but even the Windsors themselves take this claim about as seriously as George III's claims to France these days. The British Government-in-Exile still technically exists, but a has mostly been relegated to the role of cultural organistaion, promoting British culture in the four realms, especially after the return of most of the Exiles home after the German military administration made them the same offer they made the French Exiles, some of them even happier than before given Scotland's newfound independence and the Jacobite Restoration there.
- The 2ACW was won by the Pacific Government, not Canada's supported choice of the Federal Government. Luckily for the Canadians, by the time the US has recovered from the 2ACW, Alaska was firmly Canadian, New England was firmly independent, and the Kingdom of Hawaii and the other Pacific territories were firmly in the Reichpakt. The US still insisted on referundums in those places, which, sometimes rather narrowly, confirmed the status quo which the US abided by. The modern United States of America is a federal, progressive, parliamentary republic that uses the Westminster system of FPTP voting and a weak Senate and President. The Electoral College has been abolished.
- The Mexican socialist government fell to a military coup. General Garza restored the monarchy and ruled as Regent of the Kingdom with the aid of the Integralists and the Church. The change in name from Empire to Kingdom was to both show a clean break from the previous two failed monarchies and reassure the USA about having no pretensions to the lands taken in 1848. Upon Garza's death, the Regency Council selected the Duque de Moctezuma, descendant of the last Aztec Emperor, Spanish nobleman, devout Catholic, and brother-in-law to the King of France and Spain as Ferdinand, King of Mexico. Modern Mexico is a Catholic absolute monarchy.
- Brazil elected the Integralists to power who restored the Brazilian Emperor. Modern Brazil is a Catholic absolute monarchy, as is the former Brazilian puppet state of Araucania and Patagonia. The former Brazilian client states in Argentina and Chile are pro-Brazilian integralist republics.
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India already has massive numbers of Muslims anyway.
Can I have a source for Iran to annex Bal?
They'd just send in the army to suppress them like they do in Kashmir lol
They wouldn’t want to add more Muslims especially the hostile heartland of Pakistan .
Give me a small bit to dig it up. It’s been a while.
What happened to Japan? You didn't mention them in the section on Asia yet they seem to have lost all their Empire.
Oh right, I meant to mention them in the bit about China and India but forgot. Long story short, the hyper-ultranationalist government of Japan attempted to pull a surprise attack on the Deutch-Ostasien during the 2WK while still at war with most of China. The Eastern Front of the Reichspakt was formed mostly to deal with them, though they did send some token troops to Europe as well. The combines navies of the Reichspakt blew through the Japanese navy and China and India's combined massive manpower was enough subdue even the Japanese Home Islands. After the war, Taiwan and Korea were ceded to China, who restored the Joseon dynasty. Sakhalin was ceded to Transamur, which had relinquished its claims to Russia after the death of Kolchak and the ascension of the Siberian Regionalists. The Home Islands were placed under Reichspakt military occupation for a while before transitioning to a civilian administration. Modern Japan is a deindustrialised, agrarian, crowned republic, with one of the most powerful parliaments in the world. Modern Tramsamur is a thriving parliamentary republic and modern Korea is a conservative monarchy based on the German SWR model.
Here is one, I'll try to find another one if possible.
Iran and Pakistan’s intertwined history
Vatanka charts the trajectory of bilateral relations between Iran and Pakistan, and tries to isolate reasons behind
www.dawn.com
Thanks for sending through that link, it was an interesting read. I understand that the Iranians were concerned about potentially support for Baloch separatists in Iranian Balochistan in the event of a Pakistani collapse. But Vatanka's claim is that they *may* annex Balochistan if Pakistan was dismantled by internal ethnic conflict. In S&S it is dismantled by the Bharati (Indian) invasion. As such it wouldn't make sense for Iran to invade Balochistan when there are Indian troops there, plus it has its own problems.Here is one, I'll try to find another one if possible.
Iran and Pakistan’s intertwined history
Vatanka charts the trajectory of bilateral relations between Iran and Pakistan, and tries to isolate reasons behindwww.dawn.com
I respect your opinion on this, and it would actually be a really interesting topic for a smaller, more focused TL on events there, but for the purpose of my TL, how it is in the map makes sense for my scenario.
you could see India leave Balochistan to Iran as a way of improving relations. The value in backing Balochistan independence is to weaken Pakistan and/or Iran. India’s beef is with the former, without Pakistan there is no reason to needless antagonize Iran over the region.
That also works
In the timeline in question, India is a US ally and the Soviets have been showing interest in constructing infrastructure to Gwadar and a naval base there, hence India's move to exert authority over Balochistan to cut it off. I get that Iran is also not a Soviet ally in the timeline, but why trust someone else with ensuring the right outcome for you if you yourself can do it?
@Aichi72 I had so many questions about the British isles here, and Germany, but your explanation in the test did cover that. Mostly. Are Man and the Channel Islands directly annexed to Scotland and England, or are they staying in personal Union? Always possible the Germans took them as bases, but it seems like there are better options for them. Is Poland, the Baltic, Lithuania, and Finland all getting extra brothers, sons, and cousins from the smaller German states, as they were attempting to do IOTL? It almost seems like it might have been a better option than to have such a hands-off approach in Britain were the English and Scotland parliaments and armed forces would take control again. Plus the Wettins would be annoyed to not be ruling Poland again.
Did Spain fight France or other people during the war? Seems it would have been difficult getting around the Pyrenees, let alone nearing to grab the rest of the Catalan and Basque lands. At least they showed they are remaining smug about the the new union going on by keeping Andorra independent. Was Morocco supposed to also be a German ally early on? Seems the Spanish would have at least kept extra land in the south, if not Ifni or the Rif. Frankly, I can see the Spanish populace as being rather upset by how little Spain had gained versus what the monarchy gained. But since the Royalists just won a civil war, I am sure people are keeping any muttering on the downlow. Would be intriguing if the Spanish king then started offering limited regional autonomy in parts of southern France... You know. Just Incase.
Did Spain fight France or other people during the war? Seems it would have been difficult getting around the Pyrenees, let alone nearing to grab the rest of the Catalan and Basque lands. At least they showed they are remaining smug about the the new union going on by keeping Andorra independent. Was Morocco supposed to also be a German ally early on? Seems the Spanish would have at least kept extra land in the south, if not Ifni or the Rif. Frankly, I can see the Spanish populace as being rather upset by how little Spain had gained versus what the monarchy gained. But since the Royalists just won a civil war, I am sure people are keeping any muttering on the downlow. Would be intriguing if the Spanish king then started offering limited regional autonomy in parts of southern France... You know. Just Incase.
I see Australia and New Zealand lumped together and I get a little mad.
A Nation of Opposites: The United States of Chinamerica in 2024
I see by your image URL that it is hosted on Discord (with some sizing gobbledegook appended to it), but even the raw link doesn’t load anymore. I suppose Discord purges images over time? I use postimg.cc for hosting and backups.
Mann and the Channel Islands are still in personal union, they just got split between Rupprecht and Charles respectively.
Poland got the Kaiser's son, Auwi, to annoyance of the Austrians who had hoped for the original plan of uniting Poland under the Habsburg Kaiser-Konig.
The United Baltic Duchy got Adolf Friedrich of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Lithuania got the House of Urach, a morganatic branch of Wurttemburg, and Finland got Frederik Kaarle, the Kaiser's brother-in-law. White Ruthenia is a republic and Ukraine has Skoropadskyi.
Spain did some work distracting the French during the early war when the Germans were still gearing up, then managed push north a bit towards the end when all non-essential troops were diverted to defend Paris.
Morocco was a German puppet that gained the Spanish Protectorates after decolonisation.
I'm afraid you'll have to take that up with the mod creators. The game starts with New Zealand in Australasia, something about opting to join for security reasons after the British Revolution. There are opportunities for it to become independent again in certain circumstances though, if Australasia goes socialist or nationalist.
Pretty much based on relations with Iran. An independent pro-Indian/American Balochistan risks pushing Iran into Soviet Arms. I assume the Shah is still overthrown around the late 1970s. So US and India have no reason to alienate Iran before than.
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