List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II

[Mildtryth]

1. Did Erik XIII of Sweden began his reign following the death of his wife?
2. What is William of Orange known for if he doesn’t become Stadholder of the Netherlands?
3. Are there any native empires that are still existing as of the 17th century?
4. What is the current royal house of Lithuania as of the 17th century?

1. No - he began reigning jointly with her and kept the throne after her death.
2. Prince of Orange and important noble in the Low Countries.
3. Not really, although in most of North America (save for Mexico) and parts of South America, European presence is rather weak away from the coast, and there are still many native states further inland, but none of them is at the level of a empire by the beginning of the 17th century.
4. The Gediminids - the branch descended from Jogaila, that is.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

What is William of Orange known for if he doesn’t become Stadholder of the Netherlands?

being the largest landowner in the Netherlands after the Egmonts?

 

[Mildtryth]

Provence

Count Raymond-Berenguer VI of Provence (1309-1355) >< Dauphine Anne of Viennois (1314-1368)

A1. Dauphin Raymond-Berenguer VII of Provence (1332-1378) >< Béatrice de Polignac (1335-1417)​

B1. Raymond-Berenguer of Provence (1353-1361)​

B2. Armand of Provence (1355-1373)​

B3. Dauphin Guillaume V of Provence (1356-1384) >< Constance of Orange (1355-1380)​

A2. Anne of Provence (1333)​

A3. Jean of Provence (1335-1338)​

A4. Margaret of Provence (1337)​

A5. Marie of Provence (1339-1345)​

A6. Jeanne of Provence (1341-1360)​

A7. Dauphine Béatrice II of Provence (1343-1415) >< Count Jean II of Forez (1343-1372)​

B1. Count Guigues VIII of Forez (1366-1394) >< Bonne of Savoy (1365-1429)​

B2. Béatrice of Forez (1367-1400)​

B3. Dauphin Jean I of Provence (1369-1424) >< Louise of Valentinois (1372-1403)​

C1. Béatrice of Forez (1392-1425) >< Count Renaud VII of Bâgé (1390-1442)​

C2. Mahaut of Provence (1395-1441) >< Duke Galeazzo I of Milan (1389-1457)​

C3. Dauphin Guigues I of Provence (1396-1458) >< Maria of Castille (1401-1458)​

D1. Jean of Provence (1419-1451) >< a. Dauphine Jeanne I of Auvergne (1414-1436) b. Eleanor of Périgord (1422-1492)​

E1b. Guigues of Provence (1445-1447)​

D2. Marie of Provence (1422-1475) >< Count Louis of Montpensier (1405-1486)​

D3. Dauphin Henri I of Provence (1424-1490) >< a. Philippa of Bourbon (1430-1470) b. Joana of Urgell (1455-1506)​

E1a. Dauphin Guigues II of Provence (1448-1495) >< Anne of Orange (1447-1511)​

.....F1. Dauphin Henri II of Provence (1469-1496)​

.....F2. Dauphine Béatrice III of Provence (1470-1524) >< Lord Stefano Maria of Tortona (1470-1503)​

.....F3. Guillaume of Provence (1472-1491)​

E2a. Eleanor of Provence (1450-1493) >< Duke Ercole I of Ferrara (1431-1505)​

E3a. Count Guillaume II of Valentinois (1451-1504)​

E4a. Jean of Provence (1456-1485) >< Anne of Savoy (1455-1480)​

.....F1. Charlotte of Provence (1479-1506) >< Count Guy XVI of Laval (1476-1531)​

E5a. Béatrice of Provence (1457-1508) >< Count Guillaume III of Périgord (1448-1506)​

E6a. Bishop Charles of Valence (1461-1486)​

E7b. Jeanne of Provence (1479-1518)​

C4. Jean of Forez (1399-1405)​

C5. Louis of Forez (1400)​

C6. Béatrice of Forez (1403-1460)​

B4. Jeanne of Forez (1371-1425) >< Lord Humbert VII of Thoire (c. 1360-1400)​

Count Guillaume II of Valentinois (1451-1504) >< Luisa of Saluzzo (1453-1485)

A1. Louise of Valentinois (1470-1495)​

A2. Philippa of Valentinois (1471-1526)​

A3. Dauphin Guigues III of Provence (1474-1540) >< Yolande of Bâgé (1475-1532)​

B1. Dauphin Guillaume VI of Provence (1493-1547) >< Isabelle of Bar (1490-1528)​

C1. Dauphin Guigues IV of Provence (1510-1551) >< Joanna of Swabia (1505-1558)​

D1. Guillaume of Provence (1527-1547)​

D2. Dauphin Henri III of Provence (1529-1597) >< Renée of Bourbon (1527-1583)​

E1. Anne of Provence (1549-1580) >< King Philippe IV of Burgundy (1527-1598)​

E2. Guigues of Provence (1550)​

E3. Dauphin Guillaume VII of Provence (1552-1603) >< Isabel of Spain (1557-1614)​

E4. Renée of Provence (1554-1556)​

E5. Philippa of Provence (1557-1585)​

E6. Henri of Provence (1559-1564)​

E7. Renaud of Provence (1563-1588)​

D3. Philippe of Provence (1532-1550)​

D4. Jeanne of Provence (1535-1585) >< Count Roger VI of Albi (1530-1599)​

B2. Aymar of Valentinois (1494)​

B3. Bishop Renaud I of Toulon (1496-1539)​

A4. Louis of Valentinois (1476-1480)​

 

[TheBeanieBaron]

Provence

Count Raymond-Berenguer VI of Provence (1309-1355) >< Dauphine Anne of Viennois (1314-1368)

A1. Dauphin Raymond-Berenguer VII of Provence (1332-1378) >< Béatrice de Polignac (1335-1417)​

B1. Raymond-Berenguer of Provence (1353-1361)​

B2. Armand of Provence (1355-1373)​

B3. Dauphin Guillaume V of Provence (1356-1384) >< Constance of Orange (1355-1380)​

A2. Anne of Provence (1333)​

A3. Jean of Provence (1335-1338)​

A4. Margaret of Provence (1337)​

A5. Marie of Provence (1339-1345)​

A6. Jeanne of Provence (1341-1360)​

A7. Dauphine Béatrice II of Provence (1343-1415) >< Count Jean II of Forez (1343-1372)​

B1. Count Guigues VIII of Forez (1366-1394) >< Bonne of Savoy (1365-1429)​

B2. Béatrice of Forez (1367-1400)​

B3. Dauphin Jean I of Provence (1369-1424) >< Louise of Valentinois (1372-1403)​

C1. Béatrice of Forez (1392-1425) >< Count Renaud VII of Bâgé (1390-1442)​

C2. Mahaut of Provence (1395-1441) >< Duke Galeazzo I of Milan (1389-1457)​

C3. Dauphin Guigues I of Provence (1396-1458) >< Maria of Castille (1401-1458)​

D1. Jean of Provence (1419-1451) >< a. Dauphine Jeanne I of Auvergne (1414-1436) b. Eleanor of Périgord (1422-1492)​

E1b. Guigues of Provence (1445-1447)​

D2. Marie of Provence (1422-1475) >< Count Louis of Montpensier (1405-1486)​

D3. Dauphin Henri I of Provence (1424-1490) >< a. Philippa of Bourbon (1430-1470) b. Joana of Urgell (1455-1506)​

E1a. Dauphin Guigues II of Provence (1448-1495) >< Anne of Orange (1447-1511)​

.....F1. Dauphin Henri II of Provence (1469-1496)​

.....F2. Dauphine Béatrice III of Provence (1470-1524) >< Lord Stefano Maria of Tortona (1470-1503)​

.....F3. Guillaume of Provence (1472-1491)​

E2a. Eleanor of Provence (1450-1493) >< Duke Ercole I of Ferrara (1431-1505)​

E3a. Count Guillaume II of Valentinois (1451-1504)​

E4a. Jean of Provence (1456-1485) >< Anne of Savoy (1455-1480)​

.....F1. Charlotte of Provence (1479-1506) >< Count Guy XVI of Laval (1476-1531)​

E5a. Béatrice of Provence (1457-1508)​

E6a. Bishop Charles of Valence (1461-1486)​

E7b. Jeanne of Provence (1479-1518)​

C4. Jean of Forez (1399-1405)​

C5. Louis of Forez (1400)​

C6. Béatrice of Forez (1403-1460)​

B4. Jeanne of Forez (1371-1425) >< Count Humbert of Geneva (c. 1360-1400)​

Count Guillaume II of Valentinois (1451-1504) >< Luisa of Saluzzo (1453-1485)

A1. Louise of Valentinois (1470-1495)​

A2. Philippa of Valentinois (1471-1526)​

A3. Dauphin Guigues III of Provence (1474-1540) >< Yolande of Bâgé (1475-1532)​

B1. Dauphin Guillaume VI of Provence (1493-1547) >< Isabelle of Bar (1490-1528)​

C1. Dauphin Guigues IV of Provence (1510-1551) >< Joanna of Swabia (1505-1558)​

D1. Guillaume of Provence (1527-1547)​

D2. Dauphin Henri III of Provence (1529-1597) >< Renée of Bourbon (1527-1583)​

E1. Anne of Provence (1549-1580) >< King Philippe IV of Burgundy (1527-1598)​

E2. Guigues of Provence (1550)​

E3. Dauphin Guillaume VII of Provence (1552-1603) >< Isabel of Spain (1557-1614)​

E4. Renée of Provence (1554-1556)​

E5. Philippa of Provence (1557-1585)​

E6. Henri of Provence (1559-1564)​

E7. Renaud of Provence (1563-1588)​

D3. Philippe of Provence (1532-1550)​

D4. Jeanne of Provence (1535-1545)​

B2. Aymar of Valentinois (1494)​

B3. Bishop Renaud I of Toulon (1496-1539)​

A4. Louis of Valentinois (1476-1480)​

1. Interesting to see several Dauphines rule Provence.
2. Will there any new German Electorates added in the 17th century?
3. Who is the oldest French constituent monarch as of Peter I's death in 1614?
4. Does Karl I still become Prince of Liechtenstein?
5. Does Spain have any constituent monarchies?

 

[Mildtryth]

1. Interesting to see several Dauphines rule Provence.
2. Will there any new German Electorates added in the 17th century?
3. Who is the oldest French constituent monarch as of Peter I's death in 1614?
4. Does Karl I still become Prince of Liechtenstein?
5. Does Spain have any constituent monarchies?

2. No.
3. What exactly do you mean? If you're asking about the oldest person overall, i haven't finished getting all the lines to that point.
4. Yes, but they hold no land in OTL Liechtenstein - their dominions are in Bohemia and Austria, while what we know as Liechtenstein - the county of Vaduz and the lordship of Schellenberg - belong to the Counts of Sulz, who are subject to the Habsburgs - even in OTL, the Liechtensteins only got that land through purchase rather than inheritance.
5. No - all of their counties and duchies are subordinated to the crown.

 

[TheBeanieBaron]

No.

What do you mean by that?

What exactly do you mean? If you're asking about the oldest person overall, i haven't finished getting all the lines to that point.

Oldest reigning.

 

[Mildtryth]

What do you mean by that?

Oldest reigning.

1. There won't be - through the 17th century, the emperors would find no discernible reason to do so - While France still has wars against Burgundy over border territory, its territorial ambitions are smaller and restricted to territory controlled by Burgundy (mainly, Bar and the Three Bishoprics area) rather than crossing over into imperial territory, and that, combined with some other changed circumstances previously, don't allow TTL's equivalent to the Nine Years' War (which was directly responsible for giving Hanover a Electorate) to assume the dimension it did. Similarly, the absence of a Thirty Years' War, combined with Bavaria and the Palatinate being ruled by different houses and both being electorates, means that you don't have the creation of a eighth electorate to begin with.

2. Same problem - i haven't finished building all those lines to that point.

 

[Kynan]

Scenario: Matthias Corvinus ascendant.

Matthias Corvinus, King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1443: d.1505) m. Elizabeth of Celje (b.1441: d.1455) (a), Catherine of Poděbrady (b.1449: d.1523) (b)

1b) Louis V & II, Holy Roman Emperor, King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1464: d.1528) m. Isabella of Aragon, Princess of Naples (b.1470: d.1484) (a), Kunigunde, Archduchess of Austria (b.1465: d.1520) (b)​

​

1a) Miscarriage (c.1484)​

​

2b) George I, King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1488)​

​

3b) Helene Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1490)​

​

4b) John Hunyadi, Prince of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1492: d.1494)​

​

5b) Eleanor Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1494)​

​

6b) Hedwig Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1495)​

​

7b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1498)​

​

8b) Robert Hunyadi, Prince of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1499: d.1499)​

​

2b) Elizabeth Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1467: d.1490) m. Gian Galeazzo Sforza, Duke of Milan (b.1469: d.1494) (a)​

​

1a) Amadeus, Duke of Milan (b.1489)​

​

2a) Miscarriage (c.1490)​

​

3b) Matthias Hunyadi, Voivode of Transylvania (b.1469: d.1541) m. Joanna, Princess of Naples (b.1478: d.1518) (a), Catharine Báthory (c.1510: d.1538) (b)​

​

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1505)​

​

2a) John Hunyadi (b.1508: d.1510)​

​

3a) Elizabeth Hunyadi (b.1512)​

​

4a) Stillborn Son (c.1515)​

​

5b) Stephen Hunyadi, Voivide of Transylvania (b.1528)​

​

6b) Miscarriage (c.1530)​

​

7b) Maria Hunyadi (b.1533: d.1534)​

​

8b) Catharine Hunyadi (b.1537: d.1540)​

​

4b) Stillborn Son (c.1470)​

​

5b) Sidonie Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia, and Bohemia (b.1472: d.1472)​

​

6b) Barbara Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1473: d.1540) m. Ludwig of Bavaria (b.1476: d.1496) (a), William II, Landgrave of Hesse (b.1469: d.1509) (b), Frederick II, Duke of Legnica (b.1480: d.1547) (c)​

​

1a) Helene of Bavaria (b.1493)​

​

2a) Catherine of Bavaria (b.1495)​

​

3b) Matthias I, Landgrave of Hesse (b.1499)​

​

4b) Stillborn Son (c.1500)​

​

5b) Elizabeth of Hesse (b.1505)​

​

6c) Matthias, Duke of Legnica (b.1512)​

​

8b) John Hunyadi, Duke of Toszek (b.1475: d.1569) m. Elisabeth of the Palatinate (b.1483: d.1522) (a)​

​

1a) Matthias Hunyadi, Duke of Toszek (b.1504)​

​

2a) John Hunyadi (b.1505: d.1519)​

​

3a) Barbara Hunyadi (b.1507)​

​

4a) Stillborn Son (c.1508)​

​

5a) Maria Hunyadi (b.1510: d.1511)​

​

6a) Stillborn Son (c.1512)​

​

7a) Philip Hunyadi (b.1514)​

​

8a) Miscarriage (c.1516)​

​

9a) Helene Hunyadi (b.1518)​

​

10a) Sidonie Hunyadi (b.1519)​

​

9b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1477)​

​

10b) Sigismund Hunyadi, Prince of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1478: d.1479)​

​

11b) Catherine Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1480: d.1555) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b.1480: d.1504) (a), Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (b.1452: d.1516) (b), Ferdinand, Duke of Calabria (b.1488: d.1550) (c)​

​

1a) Philibert III, Duke of Savoy (b.1498: d.1505)​

​

2a) Charles III, Duke of Savoy (b.1500)​

​

3a) Ludovico of Savoy (b.1501)​

​

4a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1504)​

​

5b) John, Prince of Asturias (b.1507: d.1510)​

​

6b) Alfonso VI, King of Aragon (b.1508)​

​

7b) Margaret, Infanta of Aragon (b.1510)​

​

8b) Ferdinand, Infante of Aragon (b.1511: d.1512)​

​

9c) Frederick, Duke of Calabria (b.1523)​

​

10c) Miscarriage (c.1525)​

​

12b) Stillborn Son (c.1483)​

​

13b) Alexander Hunyadi, Count of Bistrita (b.1484: d.1510) m. Elisabeth of Brandenburg-Ansbach-Kulmbach (b.1494: d.1518) (a)​

​

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1510)​

​

14b) Voyk Hunyadi, Prince of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1485: d.1490)​

​

15b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1486)​

​

16b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1487)​

​

17b) Miscarriage (c.1487)​

​

18b) Sophia Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1489: d.1567) m. Joachim I Nestor, Elector of Brandenburg (b.1484: d.1535) (a)​

​

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1508)​

​

2a) Catherine of Brandenburg (b.1517)​

​

3a) Elisabeth of Brandenburg (b.1520: d.1529)​

 

[eliamartin65]

Scenario: Matthias Corvinus ascendant.

Matthias Corvinus, King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1443: d.1505) m. Elizabeth of Celje (b.1441: d.1455) (a), Catherine of Poděbrady (b.1449: d.1523) (b)

1b) Louis V & II, Holy Roman Emperor, King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1464: d.1528) m. Isabella of Aragon, Princess of Naples (b.1470: d.1484) (a), Kunigunde, Archduchess of Austria (b.1465: d.1520) (b)​

​

1a) Miscarriage (c.1484)​

​

2b) George I, King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1488)​

​

3b) Helene Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1490)​

​

4b) John Hunyadi, Prince of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1492: d.1494)​

​

5b) Eleanor Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1494)​

​

6b) Hedwig Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1495)​

​

7b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1498)​

​

8b) Robert Hunyadi, Prince of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1499: d.1499)​

​

2b) Elizabeth Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1467: d.1490) m. Gian Galeazzo Sforza, Duke of Milan (b.1469: d.1494) (a)​

​

1a) Amadeus, Duke of Milan (b.1489)​

​

2a) Miscarriage (c.1490)​

​

3b) Matthias Hunyadi, Voivode of Transylvania (b.1469: d.1541) m. Joanna, Princess of Naples (b.1478: d.1518) (a), Catharine Báthory (c.1510: d.1538) (b)​

​

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1505)​

​

2a) John Hunyadi (b.1508: d.1510)​

​

3a) Elizabeth Hunyadi (b.1512)​

​

4a) Stillborn Son (c.1515)​

​

5b) Stephen Hunyadi, Voivide of Transylvania (b.1528)​

​

6b) Miscarriage (c.1530)​

​

7b) Maria Hunyadi (b.1533: d.1534)​

​

8b) Catharine Hunyadi (b.1537: d.1540)​

​

4b) Stillborn Son (c.1470)​

​

5b) Sidonie Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia, and Bohemia (b.1472: d.1472)​

​

6b) Barbara Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1473: d.1540) m. Ludwig of Bavaria (b.1476: d.1496) (a), William II, Landgrave of Hesse (b.1469: d.1509) (b), Frederick II, Duke of Legnica (b.1480: d.1547) (c)​

​

1a) Helene of Bavaria (b.1493)​

​

2a) Catherine of Bavaria (b.1495)​

​

3b) Matthias I, Landgrave of Hesse (b.1499)​

​

4b) Stillborn Son (c.1500)​

​

5b) Elizabeth of Hesse (b.1505)​

​

6c) Matthias, Duke of Legnica (b.1512)​

​

8b) John Hunyadi, Duke of Toszek (b.1475: d.1569) m. Elisabeth of the Palatinate (b.1483: d.1522) (a)​

​

1a) Matthias Hunyadi, Duke of Toszek (b.1504)​

​

2a) John Hunyadi (b.1505: d.1519)​

​

3a) Barbara Hunyadi (b.1507)​

​

4a) Stillborn Son (c.1508)​

​

5a) Maria Hunyadi (b.1510: d.1511)​

​

6a) Stillborn Son (c.1512)​

​

7a) Philip Hunyadi (b.1514)​

​

8a) Miscarriage (c.1516)​

​

9a) Helene Hunyadi (b.1518)​

​

10a) Sidonie Hunyadi (b.1519)​

​

9b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1477)​

​

10b) Sigismund Hunyadi, Prince of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1478: d.1479)​

​

11b) Catherine Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1480: d.1555) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b.1480: d.1504) (a), Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (b.1452: d.1516) (b), Ferdinand, Duke of Calabria (b.1488: d.1550) (c)​

​

1a) Philibert III, Duke of Savoy (b.1498: d.1505)​

​

2a) Charles III, Duke of Savoy (b.1500)​

​

3a) Ludovico of Savoy (b.1501)​

​

4a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1504)​

​

5b) John, Prince of Asturias (b.1507: d.1510)​

​

6b) Alfonso VI, King of Aragon (b.1508)​

​

7b) Margaret, Infanta of Aragon (b.1510)​

​

8b) Ferdinand, Infante of Aragon (b.1511: d.1512)​

​

9c) Frederick, Duke of Calabria (b.1523)​

​

10c) Miscarriage (c.1525)​

​

12b) Stillborn Son (c.1483)​

​

13b) Alexander Hunyadi, Count of Bistrita (b.1484: d.1510) m. Elisabeth of Brandenburg-Ansbach-Kulmbach (b.1494: d.1518) (a)​

​

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1510)​

​

14b) Voyk Hunyadi, Prince of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1485: d.1490)​

​

15b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1486)​

​

16b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1487)​

​

17b) Miscarriage (c.1487)​

​

18b) Sophia Hunyadi, Princess of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia (b.1489: d.1567) m. Joachim I Nestor, Elector of Brandenburg (b.1484: d.1535) (a)​

​

1a) Stillborn Son (c.1508)​

​

2a) Catherine of Brandenburg (b.1517)​

​

3a) Elisabeth of Brandenburg (b.1520: d.1529)​

YESSS!

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

A blessed Easter to all.

Saving the Aviz, Jagiellons and Valois:

François I, King of France (1494-1547) 1m: 1514 Claude de France (1499-1524); 2m: 1526 Eleonore of Austria (1498-1558)

[1m.] Louise (1515-1518)​

​

[1m.] Charlotte (1516-1524)​

​

[1m.] François II, King of France [from 1547] (b.1518) m: 1535 Isabella of Poland[1] (b.1518)​

​

Élisabeth (b.1539)​

​

Claude (b.1541)​

​

François, Dauphin de Viennois (b.1543)​

​

Henri, Duc d’Anjou (1546-1554)​

​

Stillborn Son (1548)​

​

Bonne (b.1551)​

​

Louis, Duc de Berri (b.1552)​

​

[1m.] Henri, Duc d’Orléans (b.1519) m: 1533 Caterina de Medici, Duchess of Urbino (b.1519)​

​

Alexandre[2] (b.1537)​

​

Madeleine (b.1539)​

​

[1m.] Madeleine (1520-1537) m: 1536 James V, King of Scots (1512-1542)​

​

[1m.] Charles, King of Hungary[3] [from 1541], Duc d’Angoulême (b.1522) m: 1544 Anna Maria of Ansbach[4] (b.1526)​

​

Charles, Prince of Transylvania (b.1548)​

​

Hedwige (b.1550)​

​

Anne Marie (b.1552)​

​

Claude (1554-1559)​

​

Sigismond (b.1557)​

​

Françoise (b.1559)​

​

Georges (b.1562)​

​

[1m.] Marguerite (b.1523) m: 1544 João III, King of Portugal[5] (1502-1557)​

​

Margarida (b.1546)​

​

Manuel, Prince of Portugal (b.1548)​

​

Stillborn Son (1550)​

​

Francisca (b.1552)​

​

João (1553-1554)​

​

Claudia (b.1553)​

​

Affonso (b.1557)​

​

[2m.] Louise (b.1532[6]) m: 1545 Sigismund II, King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania[7] (b.1520)​

​

Sigismund Franciszek (b.1548)​

​

Karol (1550)​

​

Jadwiga (b.1551)​

​

Eleonora (b.1553)​

​

Ludwik (b.1555)​

​

---

[1] Let’s say that Francesco Sforza lives a few months longer, so François I doesn’t break off the marriage for his heir to Kristina of Denmark. It also means that by the time Anne Boleyn is executed, he only has his youngest son to offer for Mary Tudor
[2] Named for Alessandro de Medici (like OTL Henri III). His brother surviving and a sort of “competition” to see who can produce an heir first causes Henri and Catherine to try for a kid earlier. That said, with both his brothers surviving, there isn’t the “drive” to secure the dynasty as OTL
[3] As per the deal of François I and Janos Zapolya in 1528, that, Janos would name either Henri or Charles as his heir. After the dauphin’s marriage to Isabella, this sort of gets “dusted off”
[4] Daughter of George the Pious, Margrave of Ansbach. This match isn’t as weird as it appears, by dint of his first marriage to Beatrix Frangepan, the widow of Janos Corvinus, George had secured the Corvinus holdings in Hungary. Since there were no other Corvinus heirs, George kept the lands, despite marrying again. Without a brother (either never born or died in infancy), Anna Maria can both serve as heiress of those lands and supply the relevant Habsburg-Jagiellon blood (Georg is the nephew of Zygmunt Stary and great-nephew of Ladislaus the Posthumous) for Charles. A half-Zapolya princess of Brandenburg would do pretty much the same (minus the extensive lands in Hungary, though)
[5] Katharina of Austria dies in childbed with her last child in 1539 (nearly happened OTL IIRC), then João Manoel dies of a fever in 1543, leaving only Maria Manuela
[6] Eleonore’s only pregnancy by François I results in a healthy daughter, disappointed, her husband abandons her bed as OTL. In typical François fashion, he names the child after his recently deceased mother
[7] It was either him or Maximilian II as a husband, and while Eleonore was likely pulling for Maximilian II, François I dying “reduced” her daughter’s value

@Jan Olbracht @Fehérvári @Zygmunt Stary @isabella @VVD0D95 @Awkwardvulture @BlueFlowwer @HortenseMancini @FalconHonour @The_Most_Happy

 

[Jan Olbracht]

@Kellan Sullivan

In Polish Charles is Karol, Karoly is Hungarian form.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

@Kellan Sullivan

In Polish Charles is Karol, Karoly is Hungarian form.

*face palm* that's what I get for not checking before I post

 

[Atterdag]

Sweden

Looks good. My only nitpick is the numbering of your Erics. First, you seem to have jumped straight to Eric XIII despite neither otl Eric XII or a replacement one existing?

Second, without Gustav Vasa the fake royal Swedish genealogy wouldn’t exist, so the numbering of Kings would likely follow the westrogothic royal line, making your Erics the IV and V respectively.

 

[Mildtryth]

Looks good. My only nitpick is the numbering of your Erics. First, you seem to have jumped straight to Eric XIII despite neither otl Eric XII or a replacement one existing?

Second, without Gustav Vasa the fake royal Swedish genealogy wouldn’t exist, so the numbering of Kings would likely follow the westrogothic royal line, making your Erics the IV and V respectively.

Somehow I was under the impression that Eric XII was one of the Erics (the ones before the Bjälbos) when I was writing that.

But considering the context, could it not have existed with a different king in a similar situation?

 

[Atterdag]

But considering the context, could it not have existed with a different king in a similar situation?

I suppose so, but there really would be no motivation for it - in your TL it would seem that Sweden exists as an independent Kingdom the entire time, with extensive foreign contacts and a royal house that is centuries old towards the end of it. That’s entirely different from Gustav Vasa who was an upstart king from an upstart kingdom, from a family almost no one had heard about before.

In short, your Swedish kings would have plenty of “real” historical legitimacy to draw upon (ignoring of course that the weatrogothic line itself is a half-truth at best), which wouldn’t only disincentivize faking it, but actually kind of make it harder since the “real” history would be much more widespread already.

 

[Mildtryth]

I suppose so, but there really would be no motivation for it - in your TL it would seem that Sweden exists as an independent Kingdom the entire time, with extensive foreign contacts and a royal house that is centuries old towards the end of it. That’s entirely different from Gustav Vasa who was an upstart king from an upstart kingdom, from a family almost no one had heard about before.

In short, your Swedish kings would have plenty of “real” historical legitimacy to draw upon (ignoring of course that the weatrogothic line itself is a half-truth at best), which wouldn’t only disincentivize faking it, but actually kind of make it harder since the “real” history would be much more widespread already.

Yeah, that does make sense.

 

[kasumigenx]

Philip II m. Maria Manuela(a) Maria of Viseu(b) Mary I of England(c) Elizabeth of France(d) Anna of Austria(e)

1a. Stillborn boy b. 1545

2b. Juana b. 1549

3d. Isabella Clara Eugenia b. 1566

4d. Catherine Michelle b. 1567

5e. Ferdinand b. 1571 d. 1578

6e. Philip III b. 1578

 

[Mildtryth]

Estrid

King Valdemar II of Denmark (1170-1241) >< a. Dagmar of Bohemia (1186-1212) b. Berengaria of Portugal (1198-1221)

A1a. Valdemar (III) of Denmark (1209-1231) >< Leonor of Portugal (1211-1231)​

A2b. King Erik IV of Denmark (1216-1250) >< Jutta of Saxony (1223-1266)​

B1. Sophia of Denmark (1241-1286) >< King Valdemar of Sweden (1238-1302)​

B2. Knut of Denmark (1242)​

B3. Ingeborg of Denmark (1244-1287) >< King Magnus VI of Norway (1238-1280)​

B4. Jutta of Denmark (1246-1284)​

B5. Agnes of Denmark (1249-1285)​

A3b. Sophia of Denmark (1217-1247) >< Margrave Johann I of Brandenburg (1213-1266)​

A4b. King Abel of Denmark (1218-1252) >< Matilda of Holstein (1220-1288)​

B1. Duke Valdemar III of Schleswig (1238-1257)​

B2. Duke Erik I of Schleswig (1241-1272) >< Margaret of Rügen (1247-1272)​

C1. Margaret of Schleswig (1264-1313) >< Count Helmold III of Schwerin (1263-1295)​

C2. Duke Valdemar IV of Schleswig (1262-1312) >< a. Elisabeth of Saxony (1274-1305) b. Anastasia of Schwerin (1291-1317)​

D1. Duke Erik II of Schleswig (1290-1325) >< Adelaide of Holstein-Rendsburg (1297-1350)​

E1. King Valdemar III of Denmark (1314-1364) >< Richardis of Schwerin (c. 1320-1385)​

.....F1. Duke Valdemar VI of Schleswig (1338-1380)​

.....F2. Henrik of Schleswig (1342-1375) >< Kunigunde (1350-1386)​

E2. Heilwig of Schleswig (1320-1374) >< King Valdemar IV of Denmark (1320-1375)​

C3. Lord Erik of Langeland (1272-1310) >< Sophia of Querfurt (c. 1260-1325)​

B3. Lord Abel of Langeland (1252-1279)​

A5b. King Christopher I of Denmark (1219-1259) >< Margaret of Pomerelia (1230-1282)​

B1. Matilda of Denmark (1247-1300) >< Margrave Albert III of Brandenburg-Salzwedel (1250-1300)​

B2. Margaret of Denmark (1247-1306) >< Count Johann II of Holstein-Kiel (1253-1321)​

B3. King Erik V of Denmark (1249-1286) >< Agnes of Brandenburg (1257-1304)​

C1. Rikissa of Denmark (1272-1308) >< Lord Nicholas II of Werle (c. 1270-1316)​

C2. King Erik VI of Denmark (1274-1319) >< Ingeborg of Sweden (1277-1319)​

C3. King Christopher II of Denmark (1276-1332) >< Euphemia of Pomerania (1285-1330)​

D1. Margaret of Denmark (1305-1340) >< Margrave Ludwig of Brandenburg (1315-1361)​

D2. Erik of Denmark (1307-1331) >< Elizabeth of Holstein-Rendsburg (1300-1339)​

D3. Duke Otto of Lolland (1310-1346)​

D4. Agnes of Denmark (1312)​

D5. Heilwig of Denmark (1315)​

D6. King Valdemar IV of Denmark (1320-1375) >< Heilwig of Schleswig (1320-1374)​

E1. Duke Christopher of Lolland (1341-1363)​

E2. Margaret of Denmark (1345-1350)​

E3. Ingeborg of Denmark (1347-1370) >< Duke Heinrich III of Mecklenburg (1337-1383)​

E4. Catherine of Denmark (1349)​

E5. Valdemar of Denmark (1350-1363)​

E6. Queen Margaret I of Denmark (1353-1412) >< King Haakon VI of Norway (1340-1380)​

C4. Martha of Denmark (1277-1341) >< King Birger I of Sweden (1280-1315)​

​

Duke Valdemar VI of Schleswig (1338-1380) >< Martha of Sweden (1338-1372)

A1. Valdemar of Schleswig (1355-1370)​

A2. Martha of Schleswig (1359)​

A3. Erik of Schleswig (1361)​

A4. Duke Henry I of Schleswig (1363-1413) >< Matilda of Holstein-Rendsburg (1365-1392)​

B1. Valdemar of Schleswig (1384-1396)​

B2. Duke Erik III of Schleswig (1387-1430) >< a. Agnes of Oldenburg (1388-1413) b. Hedwig of Finland (1398-1452)​

C1a. Duke Henry II of Schleswig (1410-1432) >< Elisabeth of Brunswick-Grubenhagen (1411-1456)​

C2a. Agnes of Schleswig (1411-1441) >< Lord Simon IV of Lippe (1404-1429)​

C3b. Hedwig of Schleswig (1415-1438)​

C4b. Matilda of Schleswig (1418-1487)​

C5b. Duke Knut IV of Schleswig (1421-1445) >< Margaret of Hohnstein (1425-1496)​

D1. Margaret of Schleswig (1442-1461)​

C6b. Duke Valdemar VII of Schleswig (1422-1458) >< Eleanor of Scotland (1433-1480)​

D1. Duke Knut V of Schleswig (1450-1513) >< Adda of East Frisia (1451-1524)​

E1. Eleanor of Schleswig (1470-1495)​

E2. Duke Erik IV of Schleswig (1471-1533) >< a. Irmgard of Holstein-Pinneberg (1473-1501) b. Anna of Nuremberg (1487-1514) c. Elisabeth of Sweden (1495-1546)​

.....F1a. Knut of Schleswig (1490)​

.....F2a. Valdemar of Schleswig (1492-1495)​

.....F3a. Irmgard of Schleswig (1496-1553) >< Count Ernst II of Mansfeld-Forderodt (1479-1531)​

.....F4a. Adolf of Schleswig (1497-1511)​

.....F5a. Duke Knut VI of Schleswig (1501-1539) >< Isabella of Swabia (1501-1526)​

.........G1. Erik of Schleswig (1518-1532)​

.........G2. Philip of Schleswig (1519)​

.........G3. Maximilian of Schleswig (1519)​

.........G4. Dorothea of Schleswig (1520-1580) >< Elector Palatine Friedrich II (1482-1556)​

.........G5. Christina of Schleswig (1521-1590) >< Duke François I of Bar (1517-1545)​

.....F6b. King Erik VII of Denmark (1503-1559)​

.....F7b. Eleanor of Schleswig (1504-1547) >< Count Wichmann I of Lindow-Ruppin (1500-1524)​

.....F8c. Duke Johan of Schleswig-Halderslev (1521-1580)​

.....F9c. Elisabeth of Denmark (1524-1586) >< a. Duke Magnus III of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1509-1550) b. Duke Ulrich III of Mecklenburg-Guströw (1527-1603)​

.....F10c. Duke Konrad of Schleswig-Gottorp (1526-1586) >< Christine of Hesse (1543-1604)​

.........G. Dukes of Schleswig-Gottorp​

.....F11c. Anna of Schleswig (1527-1535)​

.....F12c. Dorothea of Denmark (1528-1575) >< King James I of Scotland (1516-1575)​

.....F13c. Bishop Bernard IV of Hildesheim (1532-1566)​

E3. Ada of Schleswig (1473-1480)​

E4. Valdemar of Schleswig (1476-1480)​

E5. Henry of Schleswig (1478-1500)​

E6. Ulrich of Schleswig (1481-1485)​

E7. Jacob of Schleswig (1484-1566)​

E8. Margaret of Schleswig (1485-1555) >< Burgrave Joachim I of Nuremberg (1484-1535)​

D2. Olaf of Schleswig (1451)​

B3. Martha of Schleswig (1388-1391)​

A5. Heilwig of Schleswig (1365-1395)​

A6. Hedwig of Schleswig (1367-1370)​

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Bona Sforza's kids gender-swapped:


Bona Sforza (1494-1557) m. Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland

1) Sigismund II (1519-1559) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1548, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1581)

1) Hedwig (1549-1603) m. John III (1537-1592) King of Sweden​

​

2) Anna (1551-1613) m. John Frederick (1542-1600) Duke of Pomerania​

​

3) Elizabeth (1557)​

2) Isabella (1520-1562) m. John Zapolya (1487-1540) anti-King of Hungary

1) John Sigismund (1540-1586) Duke of Transylvania, m. Joanna of Austria (1547-1598)​

3) Vladislaus (1522-1557) Duke of Bari and Rossano, m. Anna d'Este (1531-1607)

1) Isabella (1549-1559)​

​

2) Anna (1551-1580) m. Francis (1541-1587) Duke of Tuscany​

​

2) Sigismund (1552-1594) Duke of Bari and Rossano, m. Margaret Gonzaga (1564-1618)​

​

3) Sophia (1556)​

4) Alexander II (1523-1596) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1559, m. a) Barbara of Austria (1539-1572), b) Maximiliana Maria of Bavaria (1552-1614)

1a) Hedwig (1562-1620) m. Henry III (1551-1603) King of France​

2a) Isabella (1565-1566)​

3a) Sigismund III (1567-1599) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1596​

4a) Barbara (1570)​

5b) Alexander III (1575-1631) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1599, m. Anna of Austria (1584-1641) [1]​

6b) Anna (1578-1633) m. Charles Magnus (1578-1628) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel [2]​

​

7b) Vladislaus (1580-1584)​

​

8b) Casimir (1581-1603)​

5) Albert (1526-1583) Archbishop of Gniezno, Cardinal

6) Sophia (1527-1579) m. Charles Victor (1525-1584) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel

1) Henry (1550-1555)​

​

2) Charles Sigismund (1553-1608) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel, m. Sibylle of Cleves (1557-1627)*​

​

3) Magnus (1557)​

​

4) Henry (1559-1564)​

​

5) Sophia (1562-1616) m. Ferdinand (1529-1595) Archduke of Tyrol**​

​

[1] daughter of **

[2] son of *

 

[Mildtryth]

Bona Sforza's kids gender-swapped:


Bona Sforza (1494-1557) m. Sigismund I (1467-1548) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland

1) Sigismund II (1519-1559) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1548, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1581)

1) Hedwig (1549-1603) m. John III (1537-1592) King of Sweden​

​

2) Anna (1551-1613) m. John Frederick (1542-1600) Duke of Pomerania​

​

3) Elizabeth (1557)​

2) Isabella (1520-1562) m. John Zapolya (1487-1540) anti-King of Hungary

1) John Sigismund (1540-1586) Duke of Transylvania, m. Joanna of Austria (1547-1598)​

3) Vladislaus (1522-1557) Duke of Bari and Rossano, m. Anna d'Este (1531-1607)

1) Isabella (1549-1559)​

​

2) Anna (1551-1580) m. Francis (1541-1587) Duke of Tuscany​

​

2) Sigismund (1552-1594) Duke of Bari and Rossano, m. Margaret Gonzaga (1564-1618)​

​

3) Sophia (1556)​

4) Alexander II (1523-1596) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1559, m. a) Barbara of Austria (1539-1572), b) Maximiliana Maria of Bavaria (1552-1614)

1a) Hedwig (1562-1620) m. Henry III (1551-1603) King of France​

2a) Isabella (1565-1566)​

3a) Sigismund III (1567-1599) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1596​

4a) Barbara (1570)​

5b) Alexander III (1575-1631) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1599, m. Anna of Austria (1584-1641) [1]​

6b) Anna (1578-1633) m. Charles Magnus (1578-1628) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel [2]​

​

7b) Vladislaus (1580-1584)​

​

8b) Casimir (1581-1603)​

5) Albert (1526-1583) Archbishop of Gniezno, Cardinal

6) Sophia (1527-1579) m. Charles Victor (1525-1584) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel

1) Henry (1550-1555)​

​

2) Charles Sigismund (1553-1608) Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel, m. Sibylle of Cleves (1557-1627)*​

​

3) Magnus (1557)​

​

4) Henry (1559-1564)​

​

5) Sophia (1562-1616) m. Ferdinand (1529-1595) Archduke of Tyrol**​

​

[1] daughter of **

[2] son of *

How did Wladislaus wind up in Naples?