Ah I see, it kinda makes sense, considering that without conquest of Kiev, Lithuania would be not so attractive prospect for King for Polish elite, so simple baptism makes sense, if I may ask once more, who is King of Poland in this TL?
Your lines are very detailed and very interesting, but it's hard to keep track on all things considering their length.
It can be for me too - Part of the reason why my lines still haven't made it into the 18th century and stop (for now) at different times is because i need to keep track of all the important divergent lines to figure out where to go next.
I'll do Poland next. But I can tell you that the Polish crown remains hereditary.
It can be for me too - Part of the reason why my lines still haven't made it into the 18th century and stop (for now) at different times is because i need to keep track of all the important divergent lines to figure out where to go next.
I'll say you've been doing a good job with that. I enjoy looking at the family trees and can't wait to see what they'll look like in the 17th and 18th centuries.
It can be for me too - Part of the reason why my lines still haven't made it into the 18th century and stop (for now) at different times is because i need to keep track of all the important divergent lines to figure out where to go next.
I'll do Poland next. But I can tell you that the Polish crown remains hereditary.
That is if it even survives as independent state, Poland was at the verge of being taken over by Hungary after Wladislaus the Elbow-High chased out Bohemians and took over the country - the problem is, his Poland was 1/3 of pre-fragmentation Poland and he lost richest lands and on top of that he was very incompetent, he literally scored all his victories out of sheer luck, and Hungary got almost unlimited access to gold due to Slovakian resources so essentially, Elbow-High became Hungarian puppet and was forced to will his throne to king of Hungary in case of his son's male line becoming extinct, which said son reinforced in order to get Hungarian help in conquering Red Ruthenia but he failed to get a son, and Louis I of Hungary took over Poland, IOTL Poland only became independent again because Louis passed away early and with no sons and because duke Jogaila decided to get Polish crown and in addition to annex Lithuania to Poland (that's what OG Union of Krewo stipulated), if that doesn't happen, Poland likely stays as Hungarian de-facto puppet state, sharing Croatia's fate.
Of course, with POD in 1057 you could prevent fragmentation alltogether or have more competent Piast line reunify the country or have Bohemians keep Polish crown (that would be better than Hungarian takeover, because Hungarians speak completely different language, whereas in Middle Ages, dialects spoken in Bohemia and in Poland differed as much as say, English spoken in Yorkshire and English spoken in Cornwall).
Of course, with POD in 1057 you could prevent fragmentation alltogether or have more competent Piast line reunify the country or have Bohemians keep Polish crown (that would be better than Hungarian takeover, because Hungarians speak completely different language, whereas in Middle Ages, dialects spoken in Bohemia and in Poland differed as much as say, English spoken in Yorkshire and English spoken in Cornwall).
The latter is more or less what happened in the TL - The Silesian Piasts under Henry II wound up reunifying Poland, briefly absorbed Bohemia in a personal union before splitting once their main line failed, while thanks to a series of short-lived, minor or weak kings, plus a contested succession on top of that, Hungary would remain dominated by the oligarchs until the mid 14th century and would be in no position to interfere in Poland or Bohemia.
1. Yes.
2. I made a mistake right there - I meant to write Lwow, not Livonia.
3. Yes.
4. England is trying to establish some measure of control there - from Edmund IV forward, the English crown begins trying to establish central control over Ireland, which tends to cause conflict with some of the local lords, and Scotland frequently tries to take advantage of the situation supporting them. The process doesn't happen the same way it did OTL - for example, England remaining Catholic removes much of the religious dimension of these struggles and puts Scotland at a disadvantage, and the Plantation system never comes into being.
5. Not yet, but that'll change in the 18th century.
Louis XI, King of France (b.1423: d.1483) m. Margaret Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1424: d.1445) (a), Charlotte of Savoy (b.1441/3: d.1483) (b)
1b) Louis XII, King of France (b.1458: d.1505) m. Mary, Duchess of Burgundy (b.1457: d.1480) (a), Elizabeth, Princess of England (b.1466: d.1513) (b)
1a) Isabella, Duchess of Burgundy (b.1477: d.1557) m. Peter, Duke of Bourbon (b.1438: d.1503) (a) [1], Charles, Duke of Bourbon (b.1490: d.1535) (b) [2]
1a) John, Duke of Bourbon (b.1493: d.1508)
2a) Stillborn Son (c.1495)
3a) Marie of Bourbon (b.1498)
4b) Charles, Duke of Burgundy and Bourbon (b.1510)
5b) Stillborn Son (c.1512)
2a) Joan, Princess of France (b.1479: d.1543) [1] m. Juan, Prince of Asturias (b.1478: d.1498) (a), Edward V, King of England (b.1470: d.1518) (b)
- had no issue by either husband
3a) Miscarriage (c.1480)
4b) Louis, Dauphin of France (b.1484: d.1490)
5b) Charlotte, Princess of France (b.1486: d.1528) m. Frederick IV, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1484: d.1540) (a)
1a) Margaret, Archduchess of Austria (b.1508)
2a) Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1515)
3a) Sophia, Archduchess of Austria (b.1519)
6b) Marie, Princess of France (b.1489: d.1491)
7b) Charles VIII, King of France (b.1490: d.1539) m. Catherine, Infanta of Aragon and Castile (b.1485: d.1536) (a)
1a) Francis, Dauphin of France (b.1507: d.1510)
2a) Joan, Princess of France (b.1509)
3a) Charles, Dauphin of France (b.1511: d.1517)
4a) Ferdinand I, King of France (b.1513)
5a) Isabella, Princess of France(b.1515: d.1515)
6a) Louis, Prince of France (b.1516: d.1516)
7a) Charlotte, Princess of France (b.1518: d.1521)
8a) John, Duke of Anjou (b.1520)
8b) Francis, Prince of France (b.1494: d.1494)
9b) Anne, Princess of France (b.1497: d.1560) m. Antoine, Duke of Lorraine (b.1489: d.1544) (a) [4]
1a) Francoise of Lorraine (b.1518)
2a) Agnes of Lorraine (b.1521)
3a) Stillborn Son (c.1522)
4a) Miscarriage (c.1525)
10b) Rene, Duke of Touraine (b.1500: d.1521) [5] m. Mathilde of Guyenne (b.1498: d.1573)
1a) Stillborn Son (c.1519)
2b) Joachim, Duke of Berry (b.1459: d.1521) m. Jeanne of Bourbon (b.1465: d.1512) (a)
1a) Henri, Duke of Berry (b.1491: d.1555) m. Claudia of Chalon (b.1498: d.1546) (a)
1a) Jeanne of Berry (b.1520: d.1521)
2a) Louis, Duke of Berry (b.1523)
2a) Louise of Berry (b.1492: d.1510) m. Robert IV, King of Scotland (b.1490: d.1535) (a)
- had no issue
3a) Nicole of Berry (b.1494: d.1547) m. Robert IV, King of Scotland (b.1490: d.1535) (a) [6]
1a) Mary Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1513)
2a) James V, King of Scotland (b.1516)
3a) Joachim, Duke of Albany (b.1518)
3b) Louise, Princess of France (b.1460: d.1493) m. Louis, Duke of Orleans (b.1462: d.1515) (a)
1a) Louis, Duke of Orleans (b.1480: d.1549) m. Catherine, Princess of England (b.1479: d.1527) [7]
1a) Charles, Duke of Orleans (b.1501)
2a) Madeleine of Orleans (b.1504)
3a) Louise of Orleans (b.1507)
4a) Joachim of Orleans, Count of Beaumonth-sur-Oise (b.1511)
2a) Francis, Count of Blois (b.1483: d.1528) p. Helen Stewart (c.1470: d.1509) (a)
1a) Christine of Blois (b.1504) - bastard [8]
3a) Charles, Count of Beaumont-sur-Oise (b.1487: d.1510)
- never married, had no issue
4a) Renee of Orleans (b.1490: d.1529) m. Charles, Duke of Guelders (b.1467: d.1538) (a)
1a) Jacqueline, Duchess of Guelders (b.1517)
4b) Anne, Princess of France (b.1461: d.1462)
5b) Joan, Princess of France (b.1464: d.1464)
6b) Francis, Duke of Touraine (b.1466: d.1498) m. Anne I, Duchess of Brittany (b.1477: d.1512) (a)
1a) Stillborn Son (c.1492)
2a) Francis, Duke of Touraine (b.1493: d.1500)
3a) Marguerite I, Duchess of Brittany (b.1495: d.1560) m. Pierre, Count of Périgord (c.1480: d.1547) (a) [9]
1a) Francis III, Duke of Brittany (b.1522)
2a) Suzanne of Albret (b.1524)
3a) Louis, Count of Périgord (b.1528)
4a) Charles, Duke of Touraine (b.1496: d.1500)
5a) Isabella of Touraine (b.1497: d.1498)
7b) Charles, Prince of France (b.1470: d.1470)
8b) John, Duke of Guyenne (b.1472: d.1525) m. Marie of Cleves (b.1465: d.1521) (a)
1a) Charlotte of Guyenne (b.1489: d.1515) m. Antoine, Duke of Lorraine (b.1489: d.1544) (a) [10]
1a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1505)
2a) John, Duke of Lorraine (b.1511)
2a) Stillborn Son (c.1490)
3a) Marguerite of Guyenne (b.1494: d.1530) m. Claude, Duke of Guise (b.1496: d.1550) (a) [11]
1a) Louis, Duke of Guise (b.1514)
2a) Anne of Guise (b.1516: d.1529)
3a) Mary of Guise (b.1517)
4a) Anthony, Cardinal of Lorraine (b.1520)
5a) Madeleine of Guise (b.1522)
6a) Louise of Guise (b.1523: d.1523)
7a) Jean, Marquis of Elbeuf (b.1525)
4a) Mathilde of Guyenne (b.1498: d.1573) [12] m. Rene, Duke of Touraine (b.1500: d.1521) (a)
- had no issue
5a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1501)
--
Edward IV, King of England (b.1442: d.1486) m. Elizabeth Woodville (b.1437: d.1492) (a)
1a) Elizabeth, Princess of England (b.1466: d.1513) m. Louis XII, King of France (b.1458: d.1505) (a)
- had issue
2a) Mary, Princess of England(b.1467: d.1482)
3a) Cecily, Princess of England (b.1469: d.1517) m. James IV, King of Scotland (b.1473: d.1501) (a), Colin Campbell, Earl of Argyll (b.1486: d.1529) (b) [13]
1a) James Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (b.1488: d.1500)
2a) Alexander Stewart, Duke of Ross (b.1489: d.1497)
3a) Robert IV, King of Scotland (b.1490: d.1535) m. Louise of Berry (b.1492: d.1510) (a), Nicole of Berry (b.1494: d.1547) (b)
- had issue by second wife
4a) John Stewart, Duke of Ross (b.1493: d.1528) m. Antoinette of Bourbon (b.1494: d.1583) (a) -annulled 1523-, p/m. Ursula Douglas (c.1490: d.1527) (b) [14]
1b) Robert Stewart, Duke of Ross (b.1520: d.1530)
2b) Stillborn Son (c.1527)
5a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1495)
6a) Edward Stewart, Earl of Mar (b.1496: d.1503)
7a) Margaret Stewart, Princess of Scotland (b.1497: d.1499)
8a) Stillborn Son (c.1498)
9a) James Stewart, Prince of Scotland (b.1500: d.1500)
10a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1501)
11b) Elizabeth Campbell (b.1504: d.1548)
- never married, had no issue
12b) Stillborn Son (c.1505)
4a) Edward V, King of England (b.1470: d.1518) m. Joan, Princess of France (b.1479: d.1543) (a)
- had no issue
5a) Margaret, Princess of York(b.1472: d.1472)
6a) Richard, Duke of York and Norfolk (b.1473: d.1535) m. Anne de Mowbray, Countess of Norfolk (b.1472: d.1481) (a), Elizabeth Howard (b.1480: d.1538) (b) [15]
1b) Stillborn Son (c.1498)
2b) Elizabeth of York (b.1499)
3b) Edmund, Duke of York and Norfolk (b.1501)
4b) William of York (b.1502: d.1502)
5b) Richard, Earl of March (b.1504)
6b) Anne of York (b.1505)
7b) Stillborn Son (c.1506)
8b) Edward of York (b.1508: d.1509)
9b) Cecily of York (b.1510)
7a) Anne, Princess of England (b.1475: d.1496) m. Juan, Prince of Asturias (b.1478: d.1498) (a) [16]
1a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1496)
8a) George, Duke of Bedford (b.1477: d.1479)
9a) Catherine, Princess of England (b.1479: d.1527) m. Louis, Duke of Orleans (b.1480: d.1549) (a)
- had issue
10a) Bridget, Princess of England (b.1480: d.1507)
- never married, had no issue
---
Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1459: d.1519) m. Sophia Jagiellon, Princess of Poland (b.1464: d.1502) (a), Anne I, Duchess of Brittany (b.1477: d.1512) (a) (b)
1a) Eleanor, Archduchessof Austria (b.1482: d.1519) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b.1480: d.1504) (a)
1a) Charles III, Duke of Savoy (b.1503)
2a) Frederick IV, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1484: d.1540) m. Charlotte, Princess of France (b.1486: d.1528) (a)
- had issue
3a) Sigismund, Archduke of Further-Austria (b.1485: d.1538) m. Marguerite of Angoulême (b.1492: d.1547) (a) [17]
1a) John, Archduke of Further-Austria (b.1517)
4a) Elisabeth, Archduchess of Austria (b.1486: d.1487)
5a) Sabina, Archduchess of Austria (b.1488)
6a) Francis, Prince-Bishop of Liège (b.1489: d.1539)
- had no issue
7a) Anne, Archduchess of Austria(b.1490: d.1492)
8a) Maximilian, Archduke of Upper Austria (b.1491: d.1517) m. Bona Sforza, Duchess of Bari and Rossano (b.1494: d.1557) (a) [18]
1a) Isabella, Duchess of Bari and Rossano (b.1513)
2a) Stillborn Son (c.1515)
3a) Miscarriage (c.1517)
9a) George, Archbishop of Cologne (b.1492: d.1564)
- never married, had no issue
10a) Henry, Archduke of Austria (b.1493: d.1494)
11a) Sophia, Archduchess of Austria (b.1495: d.1558) m. Vladislaus II, King of Hungary (b.1456: d.1516) (a) [19]
1a) Louis II, King of Hungary (b.1513)
12a) Casimir, Prince-Bishop of Utrecht (b.1496: d.1559)
- never married, had no issue
13a) Mary, Archduchess of Austria (b.1497: d.1583) m. John, Elector of Saxony (b.1498: d.1537) (a)
1a) Maximilian, Elector of Saxony (b.1522)
2a) Helena of Saxony (b.1524)
3a) John, Hereditary Prince of Saxony (b.1527)
4a) Elizabeth of Saxony (b.1530)
14a) Joanna, Archduchess of Austria (b.1499: d.1519) m. Philip I, Landgrave of Hesse (b.1504: d.1567) (a)
- had no issue
15a) Louis, Archduke of Austria (b.1500: d.1502)
16b) Stillborn Son (c.1505)
17b) Barbara, Archduchess of Austria (b.1508: d.1510)
18b) Stillborn Son (c.1511)
---
Anne I, Duchess of Brittany (b.1477: d.1512) m. Francis, Duke of Touraine (b.1466: d.1498) (a), Louis II, Count of Montpensier (b.1483: d.1501) (b), Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1459: d.1519) (c)
- had surviving issue by first husband
[1] Promised to Peter of Bourbon in infancy, the wedding was the last official event Louis XI ever attended.
[2] The Duchess of Burgundy was only able to remarry after her father's death, and only then to her dead husband's heir, to keep the lands she had in France.
[3] Joan was, unknowingly, barren. Her irregular cycle caused many false alarms. Her continued presence as Queen of England was assured only her husband's love.
[4] The Princess Anne suffered from facial scarring, and a club foot. Her marriage to Lorraine only occured when his first wife, her cousin, died unexpectantly.
[5] Died in a hunting accident.
[6] After Louise died of pneumonia mere weeks after her proxy wedding, it was decided her sister Nicole of Berry would go in her place.
[7] Elizabeth of York orchestrated her sister's marriage to the Duke of Orleans, to extend English influence on the continent, after her daughter's betrothal to the future Holy Roman Emperor robbed Catherine of her intended groom.
[8] Partnering with a woman he met in Scotland while traveling, the Count of Blois never married, and attempted to leave his fortune to his bastard daughter.
[9] Marguerite married Pierre independently of the French Crown, but found little resistance. They were loyal subjects to her cousin.
[10] Their marriage was organised by the French King.
[11] She married her brother-in-law's brother in what was likely a love match.
[12] Mathilde of Guyenne never remarried, entering a convent after her husband's death.
[13] Cecily decision to remarry following her husband's death destroyed her hold on the Regency, and she died having not spoken to her son for over a decade. Her daughter by her second husband never married, due to her blindness.
[14] The Duke of Ross had a fierce enmity with his French wife, preferring his paramour Ursula Douglas. In 1520, he claimed to have married Ursula a year prior to Antoinette's arrival in Scotland, and in 1523 this was accepted by the Scottish government as fact. This was likely spurned on by her first pregnancy, a son who would die shortly after his father. Antoinette fought the divorce, but after his death in 1528, returned to France and became a nun.
[15] Richard of York and Elizabeth Howard caused a scandal by marrying in 1497, allegedly after being caught in an affair by her brother. This did little to heal the bonds between the York dynasty and the Howards, who saw Richard's Norfolk title as their own.
[16] Anne's marriage to Juan of Spain ended in disaster upon her miscarriage and death of infection following her first pregnancy, early in 1496. She died crying out for her mother, who had died in England shortly after her arrival in Spain.
[17] Sigismund despised his French wife, and regularly spent his days with his male "favourites". Their one child was their only combined joy, born of his father forcing them to stay together until a child was born.
[18] Maximilian, who had personal ambitions for Italy, married Bona Sforza with his father's permission and began a plan to unite Italy. He was murdered beside his wife, who miscarried due to the stress.
[19] Following his marriage to Maria of Aragon and Castile, which resulted in four daughters, Vladislaus II of Hungary married the daughter of the Holy Roman Emperor, who bore him a son before his death. She never remarried, although offers were extended for her hand many times over.
Francis I, King of France (b. 1494, d. 1547) m. Eleanor, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1498, d. 1558)
1) Aliénor, Princess of France (b. 1531, d. 1581) m. Sigismund II Augustus, King of Poland (b. 1520, d. 1572)
1) Sigismund III, King of Poland (b. 1547, d. 1604) m. Joanna, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1543, d. 1574) (a) Anna de' Medici, Princess of Tuscany (b. 1569, d. 1604) (b)
2) Philippe, Duc de Berry (b. 1533, d. 1583) m. Elizabeth I, Queen of England (b. 1533, d. 1603)
1) Henry IX, King of England (b. 1553, d. 1623) m. Elisabeth, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1554, d. 1592) (a) Maria Christina, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1574, d. 1621) (b)
2) Edward I, King of France (b. 1555, d. 1605) m. Sibylle of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b. 1557, d. 1627)
3) Anne, Princess of England (b. 1558, d. 1606) m. Sebastian I, King of Portugal (b. 1554, d. 1578) (a)
3) Marie, Princess of France (b. 1535, d. 1553) m. Philip II, King of Spain (b. 1527, d. 1598)
1) Maria, Infanta of Spain (b. 1551, d. 1606) m. William V, Duke of Bavaria (b. 1548, d. 1626)
2) Margarita, Infanta of Spain (b. 1553, d. 1610) became nun
2) Philippe, Duc de Berry (b. 1533, d. 1583) m. Elizabeth I, Queen of England (b. 1533, d. 1603)
1) Henry IX, King of England (b. 1553, d. 1623) m. Elisabeth, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1554, d. 1592) (a) Maria Christina, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1574, d. 1621) (b)
2) Edward I, King of France (b. 1555, d. 1605) m. Sibylle of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b. 1557, d. 1627)
3) Anne, Princess of England (b. 1558, d. 1606) m. Sebastian I, King of Portugal (b. 1554, d. 1578) (a)
I could be wrong, but assuming OTL fates for François I's other sons, it's unlikely that Henri II would allow his half-brother to still be unmarried by 1552. And considering that the only times Elizabeth was betrothed to France was while her mom was alive and after her dad died, I don't see it (so Anne Boleyn would either have to die or not be disgraced). IMO François will be looking to get his youngest son married ASAP after the duc d'Angoulême's death. Elizabeth is an option, but quite frankly I don't see François offering his unwed heir to the bastard daughter of the king who's attacking him. It looks weak from a political standpoint and he already has a useless match for the dauphin.
Berri is too young for Anne of Lorraine and too old for her nieces, and not important enough for an archduchess or a legitimate princess. That said, there are options:
Jeanne de Savoie-Nemours (b.1532), an heiress if her brother dies. Only married in 1555
A bit young, only being born in 1542, but kill off her father before she has more brothers, then let her brother die in infancy, and Henriette de Nevers could be in with a shot. Her dad owned most of Champagne province OTL IIRC
Anna d'Este (only married in 1549) and Berri would be a far better match than Guise
Mathilde of Bavaria (b.1532)
Jeanne d'Albret is there, but it depends who's arranging her second marriage
1. No, after Duchess Isabel's death, the duchy reverted to the crown, since the king was the heir.
2. What do you mean?
3. No. The matter of the balance between Protestants and Catholics among the electors is not a thing, since there's only one Protestant elector, Catholicism is in a stronger position, and a lot of the dynastic relations that contributed to it are not there - Spain is not ruled by any German house, has no presence in Italy and has little reason to get too involved in Imperial affairs, Bohemia is still independent, and so on.
4. Somewhat, by virtue of more principalities having survived with independent lines, such as Austria, Jülich, Bohemia, Pomerania and Thuringia. However, the Jülichs are working to strenghten their authority over the northern principalities - those who are still Catholic, that is.
5. Swedish nobility.
At that point, there are still some old counties/duchies with independent lines - Albi, Provence, Bigorre, Comminges, Blois, Thouars, Périgord, La Marche, Bourbon, Bar, Nevers, Auvergne and Sancerre, but out of those, the most independent of those is Provence, which i count among those because part of its territory lies within nominal French borders. Bar and Nevers are usually fought after by Burgundy and France, Bigorre is closer to Spain, and all the others are firmly within the orbit of the crown.
