What if the US joined the Great War as a Central Power in 1917? How? What would the 20th century look like with the German Empire and the United States as global leaders?
America a Central Power?
- Thread starter Everdarklegion
- Start date
Millions of German-born immigrants and their children, as well as quite a few Irish immigrants. Neither group liked the British Empire much, as you might imagine. Maybe if the British had been a little bit less intense about how they controlled the flow of information, and America's major newspapermen less pro-Entente, it could have happened, but to be blatantly honest, it isn't as utterly impossible as some people seem to believe.
There's also the Royal Navy's habit of seizing neutral merchant ships in wartime, as part of what they called their "belligerent rights," which annoyed said neutral states to no end, including the U.S.A. Even after WWI there were some in the British government who feared an Anglo-American War kicking off due to such violations of neutral rights.
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By 1914 about seven million Germans had emigrated to the United States. At this time Germans formed the largest ethnic group in the US including a strong German language element.
Some were political refugees; others were avoiding the universal conscription. They were generally permanent settlers; few returned to Germany and few showed a loyalty to the mother country. They would celebrate German culture but not politics. The key point is that people emigrate for a better life - what does old Germany offer than they can't make for themselves in America?
Charles Lindbergh was 15 years old in 1917. If you mean his father, Charles August Lindbergh, he was born in Sweden and thus ineligible to the presidency. (And in any event he was defeated for re-electyion to Congress in 1916.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_August_Lindbergh Of course "pro-Germans" like the senior Lindbergh never advocated for US entrance into the war on Germany's side; they just wanted a Germany-friendly neutrality.
Considering how many times war nearly broke out between the US and Great Britain after the War of 1812, and the large German immigrant population of the US, it isn't as far fetched as you may think. And if you keep Wilson from the Presidency the 19th century is ripe with opportunities one could explore that lays closer ties between the US and Prussia/ Germany
Would that be enough thought?
I immagine that a more neutral USA will have serious implications on how the war is waged by the Entente. As they have to take greater care what they do and how they structure their industry.
But overall I think for this to work you have to have some gaffes on the Entente side and better relations / understanding of the positions for the CP. Not impossible but would need some setting up.
As what would happen if the war is roughly like OTL in 1917 and the USA enters for the CP? Good bye Entente economy would be my bet. As they set things up with the USA deeply involved in the supply chain. Add the reverse moral impact from OTL and even more Russian getting out faster and I imagine the Entente is hard pressed to keep moral up. Reversely the Germans get the double boost of Russia out and USA in...
As for the 20th century? I have no idea how that could realisticaly play out. Imo it will depend on how the situation gets set up and how the aftermatch of the war resolves. For this I could imagine something from friendly rivalry down to cold war...
Yeahhh nope just no USA and Great Britain were each other most important trading partners Also isolationism was like very strong in USA at that time . And did you just straight out said that just because there was a large German American population USA will just go to war with Germany? Wtf? By that logic USA should just join Hitler too then.
Also seizing goods wasn’t enough of a valid reason for USA to just go to war with Britain lol
And France and Germany also had important trading relations... did not realy help that much did it?
Please keep the Nazis out of this. The Kaiserreich was nothing like them and there was very much baggage added to the situation.
Add that the Imigrants to the USA still had family in Germany and probably closer realtions to them it is Imo very possible that a stronger political impetus could be created by them. Again, it depends on the set up and the actual actions by all sides. As such to imply that the large population group that had German roots is a non factor is doing a handwave in this case.
And again, as I understand it, even in OTL by the end of 1916 / the beginning of 1917 the USA were getting feed up with the British blockade actions for all of Europe. This included neutrals and going against traditional set ups. So if some things change and the USA protests the British actions harsher (as they did with German ones) then a change is Imo certainly possible.
Deleted member 109224
OTL the US was Neutral for a while in part because American society domestically was fairly divided on which side it preferred. The WASP elite liked Britain, but most of the white ethnics (Jews, Irish, Germans, Hungarians, etc) were pro-Central Powers. The Russian Revolution made joining the Entente easier because a lot of the Jewish Americans who loathed the Tsar lost one of the big reasons for preferring the Central Powers. Plus, as the war got more desperate for them, the Germans got more intense with the unrestricted submarine warfare and that drove the Americans nuts.
If Italy sided with the CPs and the CPs committed early on to the establishment of an independent Poland, you'd swing two big ethnic communities in the US (Italians and Poles) solidly in favor of the Central Powers. Plus a CP Italy would mean Britain is even more aggressive in enforcing the blockade of Europe, and that'd peeve a lot of Americans too. Throw on top of that the prospect of Britain being more heavy-handed in Ireland, and that might be enough to whip the overall American public into a frenzy against Britain and onto the CP side.
If Italy sided with the CPs and the CPs committed early on to the establishment of an independent Poland, you'd swing two big ethnic communities in the US (Italians and Poles) solidly in favor of the Central Powers. Plus a CP Italy would mean Britain is even more aggressive in enforcing the blockade of Europe, and that'd peeve a lot of Americans too. Throw on top of that the prospect of Britain being more heavy-handed in Ireland, and that might be enough to whip the overall American public into a frenzy against Britain and onto the CP side.
Germany and France were having shit relations in the first place no thanks to Germany taking over French lands in the first place even though tensions were dying down just before ww1.
USA and Britain were another thing altogether and more often than not were at least somewhat alright with each other unlike the toxicity of German-franco relations
Also imao I bring up the Nazi cause your logic is dumb as hell. German Americans are not universally supportive of Germany. And there’s nothing germany can offer for their support as some posters already mention.
USA being fed up with Britain by 1916-1917 I am aware of but the worst that could come with that is just assets freezing nothing else. For this to be a POD is I concede at least is doable but eh very unlikely
RamscoopRaider
Donor
IMO the US would have to be dragged kicking and screaming through the backdoor to become a CP. If you get an incident with Japan at the right time, as had happened a few times, and if actors on both sides do absolutely everything wrong and escalate the situation, then you might get the US dragged into WWI as a de facto Central Power. This however is less than plausible as the sort of incidents that might have led to war never did
The US political elites generally were pro Entente, as they thought they would do better economically if the Entente won, changing this is not exactly easy. The poor were generally anti-War at this time, because they were well aware who would be getting drafted to do the dying. Certain immigrant groups were opposed to the Entente, but that was more anti-British in case of the Irish, anti-Russian in case of the Jews and we don't want to fight the mother country in case of the Germans, none of them really wanted to join the war, save a few Irish hotheads. Generally it took a lot of bad German behavior to break the deadlock in favor of the Entente, doing it in favor the CP will take a hell of a lot more
The US political elites generally were pro Entente, as they thought they would do better economically if the Entente won, changing this is not exactly easy. The poor were generally anti-War at this time, because they were well aware who would be getting drafted to do the dying. Certain immigrant groups were opposed to the Entente, but that was more anti-British in case of the Irish, anti-Russian in case of the Jews and we don't want to fight the mother country in case of the Germans, none of them really wanted to join the war, save a few Irish hotheads. Generally it took a lot of bad German behavior to break the deadlock in favor of the Entente, doing it in favor the CP will take a hell of a lot more
AlexG
Banned
Typically the Central powers were all powers that were against the current order or new and rising powers. IMHO for the U.S. to be a central power they need to be defeated by Britain and lose territory to them between 1850 and 1900. That defeat grows unlikelier every single year that passes especially after the Civil War but if it does happen, the U.S. will look to Germany as another ally against the current British led order. With America on it's side the Central powers will not lose the Great War. Britain will be stripped of all of its North American territories and dominions by the U.S. Germany will be dominant in Europe and the Ottoman Empire would dominate the Middle East and become a super power towards the end of the 20th century.
The A-H empire will disintegrate eventually the only question is how long it takes and whether it is a peaceful or violent disintegration. Japan would be monetarily ruined by the war but eventually recover and try again along with Russia, Britain and France to defeat the Central powers before ultimately losing in a harder and bloodier WW2.
The A-H empire will disintegrate eventually the only question is how long it takes and whether it is a peaceful or violent disintegration. Japan would be monetarily ruined by the war but eventually recover and try again along with Russia, Britain and France to defeat the Central powers before ultimately losing in a harder and bloodier WW2.
TheSwedishHistorian
Banned
This clearly requires one or more significant pre-1900 POD's. And the butterflies from such POD's would in all probability butterfly away OTL's Great War.
Emigration for a better life does not automatically translate into a lack of any love or feeling for the old country. Many immigrants left their birth nation because they believed it was their best option, not because they hated where they were. Even for the ones who did leave out of a strong desire, old habits and beliefs die hard, even when you are an ocean away.
That doesn't even cover the Irish community here, many of whom hated the English with a burning passion.
Hypothetically, if the US joined the Central Powers, they'd likely not be able to send much of any help to Europe. Given the power of the Royal Navy, and the fact that they'd be busy securing their northern border.