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- Thread starter JuanmaSingh
- Start date
Alright! A Spain timeline during the Napoleonic Era is very interesting. And from the premise it looks quite promising. I’m definitely watching this timeline.
So is the center of the Spanish government in Exile, New Spain? With Ferdinand trapped in Spain, would Don Carlos be the leading prince now?
So is the center of the Spanish government in Exile, New Spain? With Ferdinand trapped in Spain, would Don Carlos be the leading prince now?
Prince Carlos, as OTL is imprisoned together with Ferdinand in Valençay, Godoy as from long time, is still in charge of the whole empire (Charles IV was OTL a puppet of him).
I decided to put the provisional capital in Lima because, if i recall correctly, the regions of Lower and Upper Peru was the most profitable and important of the Spanish America, also they are a midpoint between Mexico and Buenos Aires and, the plus in OTL the Viceroyalty of Peru was the only one who didn't collapsed during the revolutionary waves of the 1810s, being the center of the Realists during the Spanish America War of Independence.
I'm sorry if my english is lazy.
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Logisticsofwar
Banned
How did spain build such a large army and navy since from what I understand the American colonies did not have the facilities or money to build and supply such a large force
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Well, keep it in mind that ITTL there are not Spanish American Wars of Independence, so no loss of resources and manpower to the "Patriots", with the commissioning of the Royal Port of Havana and the help of the british engineers they are able to do it. Dont forget that in OTL the destroyed Spanish mainland by 1816 had already reconquered almost all the colonies with the exception of the United Provinces of Rio de La Plata.
Logisticsofwar
Banned
How large is the new Spanish navy and where did they get the supplies to build the ships as well as train crew and officers
But there was still unrest and these regions needed regular patrols and garrisons for order to be maintained.
Spain’s navy took a huge hit at Trafalgar. And Napoleon ravaged Spain’s mainland.
Woah I’m noticing some issues with the timeline here. How does Spain magically defeat France and force them all the way back into France? Spain’s best troops were taken out by Napoleon and the Grand Armee was the finest army in Europe with many of its officers being the cream of the crop of its era. Its an inverse with Britain with many of Britain's naval officer corps being among the best and brightest during this era. The Grand Armee was also battle-hardened with many veteran officers. Even after the disastrous invasion in Russia, Napoleon came within a hair's breadth of seizing ultimate victory at Leipzig. Spain's army wouldn't be as well equipped or as well trained as the French army.
Why would Carlos IV accept this Constitution? He's a reactionary King, and passing this French inspired Constitution would be an anathema to everything he stood for. The King's sons Don Carlos and Ferdinand would both oppose this. Heck the Carlists would be more mainstream and stronger here with the traditionalists rising against this liberalism. Don Carlos was a legitmist and would likely rise up in support of his brother and traditionalism. Metternich would talk him out of this. The only reason France had a Constitution was because it was the center of the Revolution, and liberalism and Napoleon's legacy was so strong.
Carlos' Bourbon cousin Louis XVI was executed after the Constitution was passed by the National Assembly who asserted itself above the King. He and the other Royalists would never accept this. The Liberal "Francophiles" were widely seen as traitors to Spain for supporting Joseph Bonaparte, and them putting forth this Constitution upon the King would be a challenge to his authority. A more realistic pod is if this Constitutional movement a couple of decades later as liberal ideas rise up again in reaction to the new conservative counterrevolutionary order.
Why would the Spanish Bourbons do this though? This is contrary to the Coalitions whole reason for fighting in the first place. Carlos was fighting to restore the French Bourbons to regain their throne. They also wanted to restore the balance of power and restore the traditional pre-Revolutionary monarchical order in Europe. This was why France was left intact after the Napoleonic Wars. This allowed for the Bourbons to be restored without much issue. The Bourbons were already unpopular in otl. Now with the Spanish burning their cities and their capital and then re-imposing the King, the French Bourbons will be more widely hated. The French public will likely be more emboldened to turn to Revolutionary ideas, and would likely rally around Napoleon who France would likely look to save them and drive out the foreign invaders.
So this is the Arranda Plan? Splitting the Empire into various independent Kingdoms wouldn't really solve very much. A lot of the issues in the Americas had to do with the racial caste system and the desire for social reform. Such radical liberal reform would likely see a revolt by the Absolutists/Conservatives in Spain and the colonies. Augustin d'Iturbide for example declared the First Mexican Empire in otl with the support of Mexican elites and Conservatives after the Liberal Trienium. None of them wanted to be ruled by a liberal system.
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Because at the time of the landing in Lisbon the frenchs are already in disarray, even in OTL for 1813 Napoleon already already wanted to make peace with the Spaniards because the french already can't hold their positions in Spain. The way to the proper France is accompanied by the Wellington forces and the french desesperation of have to win in Leipzig or stop the coalition at the left of the Rhine.
Because he is a Godoy puppet, the reason for his acceptation is the change of mind that Godoy has had in their stay in America, but honestly, Godoy will still ruling at the same way he has doing until 1808, until the death of Charles IV and the ascend to the throne of Charles V (who is going to back down with liberalism).
Because Godoy and the spaniards don't care about the French Bourbons, they don't forget that the frenchs was the ones who bringed destruction and bloodbath to their homeland, even if the French want to go back to Napoleonic times they will be defeated as many times as necessary (Waterloo).
Is a modified version of the Aranda Plan, and it is a gradual process that is estimated to end in the 1830s.
Honestly i don't know how much ships in the early 1800s was needed to transport 130,000 soldiers, about from where they get the supplies, i guess they have them in the american colonies (after all, the Royal Astillery of Havana was one of the 3 most importants of the Spanish Empire during the 18 century), the crew and the officers are a set of british and creolles instructors.
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In all the northern territory of México, the Mexican government will support a campaign for the settlement of Mexicans in these territories, in addition to offering Mexican citizenship to all Catholic immigrants who are willing to settle in these lands (mostly Irish), Texas is not and will not be colonized by Americans. When the Gold Rush breaks out in California, the only thing that will be substantially different is that the largest groups that settle in California will be mostly from countries of the Hispanic Commonwealth (even from Spanish Philippines), the Americans of our OTL will not settle but are guaranteed to be able to take it to the United States with acceptable taxes.
The same as the Rioplatenses have with the Araucanians in Patagonia: integration by the good way or the bad way.
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It's always been a shocker that the Spanish nor Mexican governments considered giving away land in the lightly populated territories of Tejas and California to the locals especially amongst those living in the relatively overpopulated central Mexico and Yucatan. It would relieve societal tensions in those areas and solidify control in the frontier, perhaps even serving as an "example" to the native tribes unwilling to bend to Spanish control.