The Whale has Wings

[Sior]

Up gun the Matilda?

Matilda II fitted with what appears to be a 6-pdr Cromwell turret.
With a better engine would give good service.

Or the Aussis get this into use sooner?

Matilda Hedgehog (6)
Officially known as the Matilda Projector, Hedgehog, No. 1 Mark I,[39] this fitted a Hedgehog 7-chambered spigot mortar in an armoured box on the rear hull of several Australian Matilda tanks. The projector was elevated by hydraulics adapted from the Logan traversing mechanism used in M3 Medium tank turrets[39] and electrically fired either individually or in a salvo of six, from the 12 o'clock position;[40] the fifth tube could not be fired until the turret was traversed to 1 o'clock,[40] to move the radio antenna out of the bomb's flightpath. Each bomb weighed 65 lb (29 kg) and contained 30 to 35 lb (14 to 16 kg) of high explosive. The range was up to 400 m (440 yd). Aiming was accomplished by pointing the entire tank; the mounting had no independent traverse,[41] so accuracy was not spectacular, but adequate for the task.[40] Trials at Southport, Queensland, in May 1945 were pronounced complete success, and the Projector would have been impressive against enemy bunkers, but the war ended before it was used operationally.[40]

 

[Simon]

This is a going to cause major political fallout, as it basically invalidates the entire Imperial strategy for containing Japan. The inter-war investment in "Fortress Singapore" was truly enormous - the facilities required to support the fleet they are planning on sending there essentially don't exist anywhere else in the British Empire east of Alexandria. From what I can gather, they can't base the fleet they're talking about to Ceylon, as it can't cope with that many capital ships.

Slpit the difference? Keep as many ships as you can made up of a mix of carriers and battleships at Trincomalee as a sort of strategic reserve and base the rest forward at Singapore. Whilst they're still likely to underestimate the Japanese somewhat after crushing both the Kreigsmarine and Regia Marina surface fleets whilst in harbour I figure someone might think it not the best idea to keep all their eggs in one basket.

The other option I suspect they'll pursue is to take inspiration from the German u-boat pens and upgrade the submarine facilities at Singapore to resist attack from the air.

Not a bad idea. Dispersing some of them between bases in Borneo and Indonesia that have the facilities to handle them, even if not protected like Singapore, to keep the Japanese guessign about where they are might be useful as well.

 

[merlin]

Astrodragon, You have mentioned Sterlings and Wellington bombers for the RAF so far. Are you teasing us? What are you hiding in the Hanger for winter 1941?. Manchester's with Fairy P24 engines Prehaps or upgraded Sterlings with the same engine (OTL Shorts did propose at least two upgrades to the MoAP) or even my favourite, the Miles X plane.

Nitpick:
Many RAF bombers were named after towns/cities e.g. Manchester, Lancaster, Halifax, Battle (yes it is a town), Hampden, etc. The Short bomber is no exception named after the Scottish town of Stirling not Sterling (as in pound sterling).
Even if the Vulture was successful or an alternative twin engine arrangement, the Lancaster with four Merlins would still IMO be better.
Astrodragon in an earlier post - did mention about the Supermarine 318 - though I'm not sure why! The design was mainly geared to a large number of small bombs. War experience - LW blitz, showed the advantage of large bombs for maximum blast effect - which the Lancaster and Halifax could accommodate.
Alternatives to consider would be the Warwick & Windsor developments.

 

[Hyperion]

Slpit the difference? Keep as many ships as you can made up of a mix of carriers and battleships at Trincomalee as a sort of strategic reserve and base the rest forward at Singapore. Whilst they're still likely to underestimate the Japanese somewhat after crushing both the Kreigsmarine and Regia Marina surface fleets whilst in harbour I figure someone might think it not the best idea to keep all their eggs in one basket.



Not a bad idea. Dispersing some of them between bases in Borneo and Indonesia that have the facilities to handle them, even if not protected like Singapore, to keep the Japanese guessign about where they are might be useful as well.

One thing I recall seeing a few years back, but do not know if it is true. I've heard that several floating drydocks where located at Singapore, in addition to whatever fixed, permanent facilities where located there.

In the next few months, might it be possible or practical for the Royal Navy to look at relocating some of this equipment to Ceylon, or to a base somewhere in India?

This also might give the British a bit of lead time to set up their forward base at Addu Atoll sooner than OTL.

 

[mitch]

Any chance that in the supplies for Singapore sent ahead for the fleet some HE shells for the harbour guns be included???

 

[sonofpegasus]

Not a Nitpick

Quite right a Typo on my part, Stirling it should have been. PTMEP. In OTL the Stirling was screwed up somewhat by the air ministry insisting on the shorter wingspan and the ridiculusly short take of run. ITTL I hoped Astrodragon would give the RAF the good version. As to the Manchester, having it enter service earlier than Januaruy 1940 and being succesful is one heck of a plus for BC. Would this butterfly out the Lancaster ITTM, I think not the, the gain in performence and survivability given by 4 Merlins along with adequate production of the same by RR makes this developement a given withj an into service date of 1941 as OTL. OTL the Halifax was designed as a twin engined responce to the same P/13/36 specification as the Manchester and was redesigned for four engines at the behest of the Air Ministry when the Vulture engine ran into difficulties. That said this is Astrodragons Timeline so it's his call.

 

[Astrodragon]

Note that the 318 has had changes made to the original design over the last year; the original flight trials were ok, but they wanted to redesign some of it, and incorporate the results of the High Altitude Wellington results.

If you put fuel in the wings raher than bombs, you can carry more bombs in the fuselage. Now since (as it said in the story), the new 318 flying now was being run by Vickers (Supermarine are now only doing the Spit), with a Mr. Wallis in charge, guess whats hapenned to the bomb bay....

 

[Astrodragon]

Any chance that in the supplies for Singapore sent ahead for the fleet some HE shells for the harbour guns be included???

All the capital ships working out of Singapore have 15" guns.
Which include HE shells.
SO....

 

[Astrodragon]

Quite right a Typo on my part, Stirling it should have been. PTMEP. In OTL the Stirling was screwed up somewhat by the air ministry insisting on the shorter wingspan and the ridiculusly short take of run. ITTL I hoped Astrodragon would give the RAF the good version. As to the Manchester, having it enter service earlier than Januaruy 1940 and being succesful is one heck of a plus for BC. Would this butterfly out the Lancaster ITTM, I think not the, the gain in performence and survivability given by 4 Merlins along with adequate production of the same by RR makes this developement a given withj an into service date of 1941 as OTL. OTL the Halifax was designed as a twin engined responce to the same P/13/36 specification as the Manchester and was redesigned for four engines at the behest of the Air Ministry when the Vulture engine ran into difficulties. That said this is Astrodragons Timeline so it's his call.

The Manchester did get canned for the Lancaster. Its all in the story....

 

[Garrison]

All the capital ships working out of Singapore have 15" guns.
Which include HE shells.
SO....

Oh good, and if you are going to send some tanks to Singapore could someone please check they aren't Matilda I's? I enjoyed 'Pacific War Redux' but that little touch was gilding the lily.

 

[Astrodragon]

Oh good, and if you are going to send some tanks to Singapore could someone please check they aren't Matilda I's? I enjoyed 'Pacific War Redux' but that little touch was gilding the lily.

Singapore is getting two armoured brigades (or at least that is the plan). Probably Matilda II's and Valentines. Without the need to build up the middle East, even with some tanks shipping to Russia its fairly easy to find them. Burma gets an armoured brigade.
They'll all be the 2pdr version - a 6pdr is coming, but wont be ready in time, but the 2-pdr verses the Japanese tanks.... It will be rather like fighting the Italians again....

 

[Astrodragon]

What about officers like Halsey, Nimitz, or Wilson Brown?

OTL, Halsey had two carriers available in February when he and Fletcher raided the Marshall Islands. Perhaps ITTL, he or Fletcher one suggest combining the squadrons of the Enterprise and Yorktown, as opposed to independent attacks, of which OTL the Yorktown squadrons where not able to do much, partly due to bad weather, partly due to an overall lack of targets.

http://www.microworks.net/pacific/battles/early_carrier_raids.htm

Maybe with the Hornet in service longer, perhaps Wilson Brown, come February or March, might have, depending on the date, a second or even three carriers to attack either Rabaul or the landings in New Guinea.

That and with more firepower, if the New Guinea landings occur same or similar to OTL, perhaps he might be willing or able to launch a second stike on the Japanese invasion force, something OTL he was somewhat critisized for not doing.

The USN have a number of advantages in TTL
The Wildcat is in service earlier.
They will have the Corsair available in small numbers (ground based not naval)
They have less need of decks in the Atlantic, so will bring them out sooner
They have an extra carrier comissioning in the spring.

With more RN carriers around (hopefully) it gives them more options and stretches the IJN.

I dont think the USN problem was (with, granted exceptions - there are always exceptions) the guys at the sharp end, it was the ones playing politics athigh levels that caused a lot of the fingers-in-ears syndrome.

The Dutch have some advantages as well. With the WIldcat taking over sooner, Buffaloes are more available, so they get all they want. And with the Free French helping to pay for US tank production to go a bit faster, sooner, they may get their tanks too. That could change the Java campaign...

In OTL, the Japanese stuck their hand into a meat-grinder and got away with it because it wasnt turned on. This time its on.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

All the capital ships working out of Singapore have 15" guns.
Which include HE shells.
SO....

Which if all goes to plan they will never need. It won't of course plans never do once the enemy gets involved, but with half way decent aircover and a couple of submarine squadrons to mess up any landings the chances of the Japanese getting all the way down the malay peninsula are slim.

 

[Garrison]

Singapore is getting two armoured brigades (or at least that is the plan). Probably Matilda II's and Valentines. Without the need to build up the middle East, even with some tanks shipping to Russia its fairly easy to find them. Burma gets an armoured brigade.
They'll all be the 2pdr version - a 6pdr is coming, but wont be ready in time, but the 2-pdr verses the Japanese tanks.... It will be rather like fighting the Italians again....

I'm trying to decide whether that's more insulting to the Italians or the Japanese...

 

[Astrodragon]

I'm trying to decide whether that's more insulting to the Italians or the Japanese...

Tank-wise there wasnt much to choose between them
Even with a 2-pdr a Matilda or Valentine will open them up like a can-opener basically.

There were some issues in OTL with amo that had deteriorated in the heat. Now, with training goin on, this is going to be found early and in any case new ammo is being sent out.

 

[Garrison]

Tank-wise there wasnt much to choose between them
Even with a 2-pdr a Matilda or Valentine will open them up like a can-opener basically.

There were some issues in OTL with amo that had deteriorated in the heat. Now, with training goin on, this is going to be found early and in any case new ammo is being sent out.

Sound as if that much like the Germans the Japanese won't be the recipients of the huge strokes of good fortune they enjoyed OTL, and I can't say that make me unhappy.

 

[trekchu]

Tank-wise there wasnt much to choose between them
Even with a 2-pdr a Matilda or Valentine will open them up like a can-opener basically.

There were some issues in OTL with amo that had deteriorated in the heat. Now, with training goin on, this is going to be found early and in any case new ammo is being sent out.

Well, to be fair, even the Italians never built a tank that had armour so thin it could be penetrated by an ordinary bolt-action rifle...

 

[dogsbody]

Will me see Australia develope the Sentinel tank a bit earlier?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinel_tank


Chris

 

[Tyg]

Well, to be fair, even the Italians never built a tank that had armour so thin it could be penetrated by an ordinary bolt-action rifle...

I knew Japanese armor wasn't worthy of the name, but what!? What was that?

 

[trekchu]

I knew Japanese armor wasn't worthy of the name, but what!? What was that?

Gimme a few moments to track down some more definitive info. It's been a few years...