Garrison
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I suspect that would meet with fierce resistance from all quarters in the Luftwaffe, the RLM and from the German aircraft industry.
The Germans build carriers, instead of battleships, prior to WW2
- Thread starter ravenscroft
- Start date
Did they have nay others previous? I recall their modern torpedo was not ready for production until mid 1940.
nbcman
Donor
They used CANT Z.506 (EDIT) float plane torpedo bombers in the SCW. Not sure what torpedo model they used during the SCW but it had to be different from the model used with the SM.79.
CANT Z.506 Airone - Wikipedia
EDIT: According to this wiki page https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviazione_Legionaria
It was 4 planes.
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I was thinking that Germany and Italy had a reasonable relationship and that it would make sense to talk to the Italians about naval issues because they wete already a naval power. They were using land-based naval airpower for torpedo capability, so could influence German thinking away from developing carrier based torpedo-capable aircraft.
If that also means they can use smaller carriers for raiding and raiding support, it could look appealing.
More than likely.
But Goering will argue that the Luftwaffe can build its own carriers and operate them independently of the navy, then blame the navy when it goes wrong.
The Stuka was very short ranged.
Can you imagine trying to fly a Me-109 off a carrier? That thing was difficult to operate from land.
I'd be thinking early on they'd use He51 and Hs123, which are both very rugged but there have been suggestions to use other monoplane fighters based on He100 [1].
As for the 109, I thought the real problem was landing it rather than taking off, but wasn't the 109T supposed to be a navalised version?
I think short range may be less of an issue if it allows attacks from sufficiently beyond naval gunnery range, but if we're thinking in terms of what the Luftwaffe might accept rather than what our hindsight tells us, they might well be good enough.
[1] a cynic might say they'd never last long enough to need any more advanced aircraft than these two.
The Luftwaffe could come to the party if belatedly. For instance, they did produce a folding wing variation of the Ju87 tentatively for the GZ (though it never happened), though I don't recall what year or if it was fully navalized. The pics from my MFK thread Hitlers FAA here so the tailhook and un-spatted (retracting) wheels are my own addition for a TL specific Ju187, but it's an IRL Ju87 with folding wings picture otherwise. T
Garrison
Donor
Sort of along the lines of what the Imperial Japanese Army did.
Yamashio Maru-class escort carrier - Wikipedia
It takes the cake for me as the only carrier I think I ever saw equipped with 120 depth charges! Go figure...Sort of along the lines of what the Imperial Japanese Army did.
Yamashio Maru-class escort carrier - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
FWIW there was also the Fieseler Fi 167 which was designed to be a carrier aircraft and first flew in December 1937.The Luftwaffe could come to the party if belatedly. For instance, they did produce a folding wing variation of the Ju87 tentatively for the GZ (though it never happened), though I don't recall what year or if it was fully navalized. The pics from my MFK thread Hitlers FAA here so the tailhook and un-spatted (retracting) wheels are my own addition for a TL specific Ju187, but it's an IRL Ju87 with folding wings picture otherwise. T
Part of Post 56.
As far as I know the Germans had local air superiority IOTL and that's why the invasion was a success.
Any German CV is going to be ultimately useless in the face of the world's largest Aircraft Carrier that is the HMS Entire Island of Britain (1707)
They'd need to break out past Britain, which would be a dicey proposition, and for a use that would be, frankly, minimal in impact. Like, ok, maybe they could pull off one or maybe two airborne raids against Britain, but anything more than that is just taking the equivalent amount of metal to produce all the parts and dumping it in the ocean with a couple extra steps.
They'd need to break out past Britain, which would be a dicey proposition, and for a use that would be, frankly, minimal in impact. Like, ok, maybe they could pull off one or maybe two airborne raids against Britain, but anything more than that is just taking the equivalent amount of metal to produce all the parts and dumping it in the ocean with a couple extra steps.
Garrison
Donor
So we go from a couple of experimental carriers to the Germans operating an entire fleet of them, without of course the Royal Navy doing anything in response. You are now requiring the Kriegsmarine to go all in on carrier development at a time when they barely have any modern warships. The 'air superiority' of those escort carriers won't last long when they have no escorts to protect them from prowling submarines and surface ships.
Yes, but they worked to their own set of priorities, often late or unresponsive to KM needs. This gives the KM quicker and better tactical flexibility to use fleeting opportunities.
As I often write the Dithmarschen class was about the same size as the USN's Cimarron class and a few knots faster. Four of the Cimarrons were converted to Sangamon class CVEs and the Cimarron design was the basis of the "keel up" Commencement Bay class CVEs. Therefore, its likely that the Dithmarschens class would have made rather good CVEs.
thaddeus
Donor
have suggested something built off the Dithmarschen-class since reading they were considered as auxiliary cruisers, but the KM decided they were too valuable as supply ships to risk (this being when they only had five.)
a larger universe of the class could have been built putatively for commercial use, since Germany was an oil importer, thus dozens(?) available for military use in wartime.
think all this is more viable if they developed helicopters and/or autogyros and/or STOL aircraft? (am thinking the HS-123 biplane in the last category?)
edit. meant the HS-123 might have been used as one of the possible STOL aircraft
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The 109T had inward retracting landing gear making it more stable but its take off and landing characteristics were still incredibly dangerous for carrier operations.