Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.

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Incognitia

Merrick said:
In fairness to de Gaulle, at least part of his legendary obstreperousness was his need to insist on his independence at every opportunity, since being seen as a British puppet/mercenary was political death in France. He also had to keep reminding everyone that France was a Proper Fighting Ally and not (despite Vichy) another Axis puppet in the Hungary/Romania mode, suitable for victors' justice at the peace table. On top of that, OTL he also had to deal with well-founded suspicion that the Americans at least were prepared to go behind his back and cut deals with the Petainist traitors (he was on safer ground with the British, simply because everyone in Vichy hated them). And on top of that he continually had to balance being useful enough to the Allies not to get dumped, while at the same time conserving his resources for the struggle for control of France after the Liberation - since if he failed there, the alternatives for la Patrie were a de-facto continuation of Petainism, a Communist takeover or, just as bad, an Anglo-American occupation government.
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Yeah, I think it's entirely understandable that de Gaulle gets a bad rap and also hard to see what else he could have done given the situation he was in.
 
alfredtuomi

alfredtuomi

Incognitia said:
Yeah, I think it's entirely understandable that de Gaulle gets a bad rap and also hard to see what else he could have done given the situation he was in.
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Well 20 odd years later he was still as "diplomatic" to the point of cutting off his official visit to Canada shortly before being shown the door.
 
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dave_r_gilbert

kelgar04 said:
Didn't he also supposedly piss off Russia with some stupid comment about Stalingrad?
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Apparently, in Stalingrad on an official visit, he made a comment along the lines of "what a remarkable people".
His host said (paraphrased) "The soviet heroes, to have fought so hard."
de Gaulle, ever the polite guest, "No, the Germans, to have come so far."
 

Ramontxo

Donor
alfredtuomi said:
Well 20 odd years later he was still as "diplomatic" to the point of cutting off his official visit to Canada shortly before being shown the door.
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The "Vive le Quebec Libre" moment. My mother used to say that she would have loved to hear him expressing similar sentiments in Bayonne or Biarritz...
 
Cymraeg

Cymraeg

My brother in law and I, along with his cousin, were a bit baffled to discover that when we went to find the memorial to the Bruneval Raid in 2019, that there seemed to be more there about a big speech that De Gaulle made on a hillside there in the 1950's IIRC.
 

Peg Leg Pom

Ramontxo said:
The "Vive le Quebec Libre" moment. My mother used to say that she would have loved to hear him expressing similar sentiments in Bayonne or Biarritz...
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Thank you for helping to save my country from the Nazi's. Now I'll encourage extremists to break your country up.
 

Draconis

Peg Leg Pom said:
Thank you for helping to save my country from the Nazi's. Now I'll encourage extremists to break your country up.
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"Canadians do not need to be liberated."; Prime Minister Lester Pearson. Unlike the French about 23 years earlier. Charles de Gaulle could be a real shithead at times. But he wasn't all bad.
 

allanpcameron

Donor
Sorry for the delay in updates. I was away in Cuba for a couple of weeks on holiday, and am suffering from a slight case of writer's block. Wrote a few paragraphs this afternoon, so hopefully normal service will be resumed, before thoughts of De Gaulle get too out of hand!
Allan.
 

MattII

allanpcameron said:
Sorry for the delay in updates. I was away in Cuba for a couple of weeks on holiday, and am suffering from a slight case of writer's block. Wrote a few paragraphs this afternoon, so hopefully normal service will be resumed, before thoughts of De Gaulle get too out of hand!
Allan.
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That's fine, RL definitely comes first.
 

CB13

allanpcameron said:
Sorry for the delay in updates. I was away in Cuba for a couple of weeks on holiday, and am suffering from a slight case of writer's block. Wrote a few paragraphs this afternoon, so hopefully normal service will be resumed, before thoughts of De Gaulle get too out of hand!
Allan.
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Woohoo! 🥳
 

Merrick

allanpcameron said:
Sorry for the delay in updates. I was away in Cuba for a couple of weeks on holiday, and am suffering from a slight case of writer's block. Wrote a few paragraphs this afternoon, so hopefully normal service will be resumed, before thoughts of De Gaulle get too out of hand!
Allan.
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That would be 1939, then? ;)

Hope you enjoyed your holiday, and don't worry about needing to take a break. You're doing this for fun, so don't let us turn it into a chore.
 
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