Flight 93 hits the Capitol on 9/11

[vsauce]

Flight 93 was supposed to hit the Capitol on 9/11 but there was a passenger revolt which prevented that from happening. Say that flight 93 isn't delayed on 9/11 and hits the Capitol building slightly before flight 77 hits the Pentagon. How would America be affected by this and how would Congress be affected? Would the response have been any different?

 

[Sekhmet_D]

I guess it all depends on just WHO is in the Capitol on that date and becomes a casualty as a result. For me the most interesting what-if would be Rumsfeld perishing, as I'm curious to see how the War on Terror would be fought without him dictating strategy.

 

[vsauce]

I guess it all depends on just WHO is in the Capitol on that date and becomes a casualty as a result. For me the most interesting what-if would be Rumsfeld perishing, as I'm curious to see how the War on Terror would be fought without him dictating strategy.

Though Rumsfeld was in the Pentagon on 9/11 it’d still be interesting to see how things would play out had he died at the Capitol. Perhaps the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are handled differently

 

[athgtq16129]

I recall reading that after the Pentagon was hit, Bush had authorized any hijacked airplanes to be shot down, so if the Flight 93 revolt did not occur, and Ziad Jarrah was on the path to crash it on the capitol, then it would likely have been shot down before it hit its intended target, a hijacked airliner full of civilians getting shot down by US forces themselves would cause countless moral discussions and arguments over the justification of killing civilians to prevent bigger tragedies in the following years.

 

[Sekhmet_D]

I recall reading that after the Pentagon was hit, Bush had authorized any hijacked airplanes to be shot down, so if the Flight 93 revolt did not occur, and Ziad Jarrah was on the path to crash it on the capitol, then it would likely have been shot down before it hit its intended target, a hijacked airliner full of civilians getting shot down by US forces themselves would cause countless moral discussions and arguments over the justification of killing civilians to prevent bigger tragedies in the following years.

I dunno about that. I think nobody would bat an eye about such a sacrifice being made in the name of the greater good. It's either die in a sucide crash or get shot down by your own side to prevent that crash, and I think the argument could be made that it's better to die at the hands of your own people than those of the enemy.

 

[vsauce]

I recall reading that after the Pentagon was hit, Bush had authorized any hijacked airplanes to be shot down, so if the Flight 93 revolt did not occur, and Ziad Jarrah was on the path to crash it on the capitol, then it would likely have been shot down before it hit its intended target, a hijacked airliner full of civilians getting shot down by US forces themselves would cause countless moral discussions and arguments over the justification of killing civilians to prevent bigger tragedies in the following years.

This of course would’ve happened if Flight 93 had still been delayed just only that the passenger revolt doesn’t happen. However Flight 93 doesn’t get delayed here and hits the Capitol most likely before the Pentagon so it doesn’t get shot down

 

[Polish Eagle]

What Happened on Capitol Hill on 9/11

What was happening inside Congress on September 11th? Key figures remember.

time.com

That article actually gives a few names for which congressmen were at work on the day of. What I found interesting, last time this was discussed, was this line:

Senator Bob Graham and I were hosting a breakfast meeting for Mahmud Ahmed, the head of the Pakistan intelligence service.

So Mr. Ahmed is a possible casualty. Does that do anything to Pakistan?

Other names that come up: Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, Senator John Glenn, Representative Porter Goss (House Intel Committee), Dennis Hastert (speaker of the House), Representative Martin Frost (Chair, House Dem Caucus), Senator Bob Graham. There's a bunch of pages and aides and chiefs of staff too, but I don't know if that translates into the legislators themselves being there--though I think there's a good bet Ed Kennedy was there?

 

[Claudius]

I wonder if that "successful' an attack would have prompted a Full Roman response involving a tactical nuclear strike on the valley Bin Laden was in. I saw the twin towers come down. The sentiment in New York that day would have supported it.

 

[YYJ]

Here is an older thread on the same topic, with some good background info and comments.

WI: Capitol building struck on September 11?

Let's say Flight 93 does not get delayed, and continues to its most likely target, the US Capitol building before it can be intercepted. What's the outcome? How is this alternative 9/11 remembered? Would there be time for Congress to be safely evacuated?

www.alternatehistory.com

 

[Sekhmet_D]

So Mr. Ahmed is a possible casualty. Does that do anything to Pakistan?

His loss might make them less sympathetic to the Taliban and thus less inclined to give them safe haven after they're forced out of Afghanistan during the War on Terror.

 

[vsauce]

I wonder if that "successful' an attack would have prompted a Full Roman response involving a tactical nuclear strike on the valley Bin Laden was in. I saw the twin towers come down. The sentiment in New York that day would have supported it.

I don’t think the response would’ve been that harsh, sure it would be harsher but not to the point of nuking Afghanistan. Had the Capitol been hit on 9/11, I think there would’ve been more air strikes and more troops sent to Afghanistan therefore better handling of the Taliban insurgency.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

What Happened on Capitol Hill on 9/11

What was happening inside Congress on September 11th? Key figures remember.

time.com

That article actually gives a few names for which congressmen were at work on the day of. What I found interesting, last time this was discussed, was this line:



So Mr. Ahmed is a possible casualty. Does that do anything to Pakistan?

Other names that come up: Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, Senator John Glenn, Representative Porter Goss (House Intel Committee), Dennis Hastert (speaker of the House), Representative Martin Frost (Chair, House Dem Caucus), Senator Bob Graham. There's a bunch of pages and aides and chiefs of staff too, but I don't know if that translates into the legislators themselves being there--though I think there's a good bet Ed Kennedy was there?

How soon did these gentlemen and the clerical staff depart the building?

I recall reading that after the Pentagon was hit, Bush had authorized any hijacked airplanes to be shot down, so if the Flight 93 revolt did not occur, and Ziad Jarrah was on the path to crash it on the capitol, then it would likely have been shot down before it hit its intended target, a hijacked airliner full of civilians getting shot down by US forces themselves would cause countless moral discussions and arguments over the justification of killing civilians to prevent bigger tragedies in the following years.

The pair of F16 fighters in best position to intercept Flight 93 were unarmed. The pilots were ordered aloft without waiting for ammunition. Aloft the leader made it clear he was going to sacrifice his plane if necessary. That led to a discussion between the two pilots of the best mode of 'attack' to ensure the airliner did not reach its target.

 

[athgtq16129]

Aloft the leader made it clear he was going to sacrifice his plane if necessary. That led to a discussion between the two pilots of the best mode of 'attack' to ensure the airliner did not reach its target.

Wait a second, my inner ESL is kicking in, you mean that, since the jets had no ammo or way to shoot it down, one of the jet pilots were willing to perform a kamikaze suicide attack against Flight 93?!

 

[sarge]

Wait a second, my inner ESL is kicking in, you mean that, since the jets had no ammo or way to shoot it down, one of the jet pilots were willing to perform a kamikaze suicide attack against Flight 93?!

In theory, yes. If the pilot survives the impact, he could then eject... there's no guarantee of surviving the crash into the airliner.

 

[YYJ]

In theory, yes. If the pilot survives the impact, he could then eject... there's no guarantee of surviving the crash into the airliner.

In 1971 a Marine F-4 accidentally collided with a Hughes Airwest DC-9 just inland of Los Angeles. The fighter struck the airliner at about 45 degrees of roll, and the wing and tail chopped the cockpit off the DC-9. The Marine RIO successfully ejected and survived. The fighter pilot did not, but there was a fault in the ejection system, and if that was not present he could have ejected and survived.

So an F-15 theoretically could have rammed an airliner out of the sky, and the pilot survive.

Hughes Airwest Flight 706 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

Wait a second, my inner ESL is kicking in, you mean that, since the jets had no ammo or way to shoot it down, one of the jet pilots were willing to perform a kamikaze suicide attack against Flight 93?!

Yes. Here is a interview with the two ANG pilots.

.

Note these were National Guard pilots, who were at a planning meeting. Not on any kind of standby alert status or anything. Also that they were initially working with civilian air traffic controllers. Not USAF combat air controllers.

 

[aaronupright]

Wait a second, my inner ESL is kicking in, you mean that, since the jets had no ammo or way to shoot it down, one of the jet pilots were willing to perform a kamikaze suicide attack against Flight 93?!

In theory, yes. If the pilot survives the impact, he could then eject... there's no guarantee of surviving the crash into the airliner.

In 1971 a Marine F-4 accidentally collided with a Hughes Airwest DC-9 just inland of Los Angeles. The fighter struck the airliner at about 45 degrees of roll, and the wing and tail chopped the cockpit off the DC-9. The Marine RIO successfully ejected and survived. The fighter pilot did not, but there was a fault in the ejection system, and if that was not present he could have ejected and survived.

So an F-15 theoretically could have rammed an airliner out of the sky, and the pilot survive.

Hughes Airwest Flight 706 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

They train for it. Remember they are there to stop T-95/160 and now Tu22M. One plane and at most two crew are a fair exchange for a nuclear armed bomber.

 

[aaronupright]

So Mr. Ahmed is a possible casualty. Does that do anything to Pakistan?

General Ahmed.

His loss might make them less sympathetic to the Taliban and thus less inclined to give them safe haven after they're forced out of Afghanistan during the War on Terror.

Very unlikely. Pakistan supported the NATO effort until it became clear that the US had no idea what it was doing. That happened in 2005/6 or so and that would still happen regardless.

 

[Claudius]

About four hours or so after the twin towers were hit two F-16s went east over we were maybe 1000 feet up and under full afterburner. Apparently some airliner was approaching NYC and had not responded to radio. I can guess what their orders were.