Fear, Loathing and Gumbo on the Campaign Trail '72

[The Sandman]

The seizure of Macao, BTW, has a destabilizing potential, as it brings in people with different ideas and knowledge from the average Chinese citizen.

I'm pretty sure that the Lesser Mao and his cronies would hear that part as "new residents of one our 'Reeducating Counterrevolutionaries Through Opium Production' camps".

 

[Drew]

Who plays the young Vito Corleone in The
Godfather Part II?

I don't know. Any suggestions?

What happened to Mayotte when the Comoros
became independent?

It was the only island in the archipelago that voted in referendums in 1974 and 1976 to retain its link with France and forgo independence (with 63.8% and 99.4% of votes respectively).

I think the Mitterrand government would honour the results of the referenda and not force Mayotte to join the Comoros against the will of the majority of voters.

Without Chinese backing for FRETILIN and with
communist failure in Indochina it would seem to me that there is actually a good chance of the EastTimor situation resolving itself without either a FRETILIN takeover or an Indonesian invasion.

Yes, but the Chinese aren't the only game in town. With China out of the picture Moscow (esp. Suslov) would find new uses for their North Korean and Cuban allies to make trouble in the name of revolutionary liberation.

And finally, a suggestion: I know it's outside
the box thinking, but the Anglo-Americans would do good right now to pull out of Syria. This would force the Soviets to bring in even more troops, which, unsettling as it may be, will shift the focus of Sunni extremism away from the West and undermine the Soviet-Turkish relationship. Furthermore, the Cyprus mess needs a solution ASAP - Gavin should push Heath to intervene using some of the forces being pulled back from Syria.

I see your point, but there are serious policy drawbacks to this.

The western powers are going to have to act outside the UN and that's going to require co-ordination between Gavin, Heath, Mitterrand and Moro and possibly some other allies. I don't think the West Germans will be ready for this sort of thing. (and incidentally, if the western defence in Europe relies more heavily on the West Germans as other NATO troops are needed elsewhere, won't that set-off alarm bells in Warsaw, Prague, Budapest and Moscow?)

The problem with bugging out of Syria with a Soviet presence still there is that it will leave in place a Soviet force which can connect-up a pro-Soviet Syrian government and act as a conduit to its client in Iraq. This will drive King Hussein and the Israelis into absolute hysterics. It would, I think, bring Likud into power faster than OTL, with consequences for the outbreak of a new Middle East war. The Jews of Begin's generation who came from central and Eastern Europe had no more love for the Soviet Union than they did for the Nazis, and they would view an armed Soviet presence on their borders, unrestricted by other forces, as a serious national security threat.

This one is a true quagmire which makes Vietnam look easy.

Additionally, for any military action in Cyprus, Gavin is going to need the support of Congress, which is not going to be obliging.

Didn't Eisenhower visit Taiwan, or am I misinformed?

Actually, he did in 1960. Gavin's visit would be the first in 15 years, and with a completely different message.

Well he could denounce the Sino-Burmese border treaty and invade an area which, conveniently enough, his heroin business rivals make use of. Just how extensive are the raids thus far? The seizure of Macao, BTW, has a destabilizing potential, as it brings in people with different ideas and knowledge from the average Chinese citizen.

The Lesser Mao could, or simply make war against his competitors, putting everyone in an awkward position (western powers are going to give arms and logistical support to drug lords and a matter of open policy?). I'd say right now he's restricting himself to special forces raids and air bombing in the more remote regions, softening-up the opposition.

All the Chinese with "different ideas" are going off for "labour re-education" on the plantations. They won't be allowed to mix with the general population.

 

[Drew]

With Gates and Allen's demonstration a failure (unlike in OTL), and with both of them in jail, how will this affect the development of PCs in TTL?

Slower, more business rather than consumer driven, like the photocopier or the fax machine. Less innovative in developing software for a while too - more business and scientific oriented software, less for the consumer end. Pong and Pac Man may have a longer shelf life.

On the other hand, prison can concentrate the mind ....

I liked the inclusion of "Gronk" as one of the movies of 1974, reflecting well how the events of 1972-73 have affected Hollywood and led to the creation of new scripts. One could well imagine "Chinatown" also reflecting the period, even though it takes place in the 1930s. One quibble though: I don't think there would be two nominees for Best Actor from the same movie, so I think that Robert De Niro would be the sole nominee from Gronk. Speaking of him, I'd imagine his performance was a mixture of his Travis Bickle character in "Taxi Driver" (which may not come to exist in TTL) and that of Dustin Hoffman's character in "Midnight Cowboy."

The multiple nomination might be a political message by the Academy; or I could restore Albert Finney's nomination. I can see the current environment supporting Taxi Driver and Midnight Cowboy, or scripts that might parallel them, as gritty commentary on wider social conditions. Look for another remake of the Grapes of Wrath, for example. You could also imagine a Blade Runner/Soylent Green blend type scenario - a SF movie set in an even grimmer, darker future, where the poor have to fight to survive.

Logan's Run = Instead of finding an old man in the ruins of Washington they find evidence of a mass breakdown which lead to rioting, civil war and wholesale destruction of society. They may well conclude that the programmed end in the Domed City is preferable after all (Francis 7 wins instead of Logan, or the roles are reversed).

The next James Bond film could be an adaptation of Colonel Sun instead of The Spy Who Loved Me.

I played down Godfather II because this is a social and political environment that would be less interested in celebrating a film about organized crime and violence. Ironically, Pacino's performance in Scarface could eclipse his portrayal of Michael Corleone ITTL (the pluky, gritty entrepreneur in crime vs. The reluctant Prince).

Good to see that the Roger Moore abduction has created ripples in the British entertainment industry (the Beatles and the Pythons etc. calling for his release) and Hollywood.

Would be a cause for the acting community; also a statement against government policy.

Aaah, wonderful, delicious irony. On the day thatPhnom Penh fell and the Khmer Rouge's reign of terror began in OTL, here the bloody butchers get exactly what they deserve. Kudos!

Poetic justice can cross realities sometimes. But where Pol Pot is a goner, we have the Lesser Mao - and he has so much more material to work with!

Also, I like how here April 30th (the Fall of Saigon OTL) is the date when the Vietnam War ends in a Korea-style ceasefire (not a peace treaty). Speaking of which, what's the final death toll here? I imagine that U.S. losses are considerably more than OTL's 58,000, not to mention Vietnamese casualties (North and South). Also, even though the war has ended in a Korean-style draw, I imagine that it won't really be regarded as a victorious war (apart from jingoists) since the economic and social costs have been high. And when you think of all the hundreds of thousands of additional veterans, many of them with economic, psychological, social etc. problems, if they're not already permanently maimed...

I liked the idea of turning April 17 & 30 on their heads. Of course now there are more problems; considering that there was two more years of warfare, with intense fighting at places like Tchepone and Dong Hoi, I'd look at overall casualty rates for the whole war being on the order of 20% higher or even more than OTL. (ie. 71,000 names for the wall instead of 58,000), and with the increase in permanently disabled veterans (not to mention increased killings and maimings among Vietnamese citizens).

However, the whole thing will be treated a little differently because it isn't such a complete US defeat. Yes it was very costly and the war is still unpopular and controversial, but ends more like the Korean War did, with some degree of national honour (even if it has to be forced). There could well be less ostracism of Vietnam veterans in the coming years, although their problems will still come into sharper focus - but with there being more of them, they will represent proportionally a larger lobby group too.

I would have loved to have seen that interview. I bet Gore was a captive audience. Of course, I'm sure that Arafat intends the message to be "Heroic PLO saves Gore from fiendish Islamists! We're the Good Guys!" in order to curry favour from the U.S. and consequently receive more support against the PJO and for the independence struggle.

Arafat: "I am the George Washington of my people, Mr. Gore. We wish only our own homeland to be a free, democratic people, just like your Washington and Jefferson."

No doubt Arafat is trying to exploit this to open a closer relationship with the US.

This passage is just made of win: Zhou Enlai, his wife and John McCain unceremoniously dumped by the PLA at the feet of the British, with the latter two acting as stretcherbearers for the former. I can just see so many things being blown wide open with this. Of course, you do understand that McCain's ordeal practically screams for a movie, don't ya?

A book, a movie, a home game, John McCain action figures, a campaign biography ....

It also seemed a good way for the Lesser Mao to humiliate Chou (I've been using the spelling then in use, rather than the current revision) and deliver his message to the US.

Ahh, Reagan, Reagan. You can rely on the Gipper not knowing what the f*ck he's talking about, this time about Portugal and the political situation there. No wonder the Portuguese are pissed at him and the U.S. in general here.

Let Reagan be Reagan.

And, of course, the situation in the Eastern Mediterranean is getting grimmer by the hour, with the Greeks and the Turks now in a shooting war, and with the U.S.S. Enterprise severely hit by missile fire from an as-yet-unknown source. The only thing that I can think of that could defuse the situation is if the Greek junta were overthrown and the new government severed all links and support with the Samson regime in Cyprus, but even that might not be enough. Looking forward to how this all develops.

See reply to Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy

If I recall correctly, in Chile before 1973 (and also these days) a president could only serve one six-year-term, though he could run for another, separate term later on (Jorge Allessandri, Allende's main opponent in the 1970 election in fact was a former president himself). Therefore Allende could not have run for re-election in 1976 in any case, though here Carter might not know it.

Since when have facts had anything to do with a Congressional hearing? A bit of rhetorical flourish by Sen. Carter who was needling a frustrated Kissinger.

 

[Drew]

I just think July (and August) is the worst possible time for elections, for obvious reasons (holidays, Tour de France...) Mitterrand would have waited until mid-September, beginning of October (since he couldn't do it in June because of the 74 dissolution). And he wouldn't have dissolved out of the blue, just because contitutionally, he could. He would have waited for a crisis and a vote of no confidence in the Assembly on a symbolic project (symbolic for the Left I mean - maybe National Education reform, or a Nationalisation bill)...

Truth is I threw that in because I knew there would have to be a change in 1975: you're points are just as valid and I can move it to October; in some ways that makes more sense than trying to do it in the summer.

My question would be what effect would events in Portugal, and a hardening of the right in Spain, have on the electorate in France? These are taking place in France's neighbourhood, and Mitterrand has been trying to stem the Portuguese slide into the Soviet orbit. Would this influence French voters to strengthen the President's hand by giving him more Socialist Deputies, or would it scare them off the PCF?

I could imagine a UDR slogan - pardon the English - "If you like Portugal you'll like France under the Socialists".

 

[Drew]

Gavin seems to have made an uncharacteristic gaffe in Taiwan -- is this a consequence of Kissinger leaving the picture?

Not necessarily; I see this more as a tactical move. Note the content of his remarks in Taiwan. Gavin is going a long way to tell the PRC that the door is still open, and by choosing to do so by declaring support for a peaceful one China policy on Taiwanese soil, he is making a definitive statement which squarely puts the ball in Peking's court (and puts Taiwan on notice that US support is conditional and limited; lest they take it for granted by trying to provoke the Lesser Mao's regime). If Peking rejects the U.S. diplomatic overture, and the U.S. has to ramp-up its support for Taiwan's protection, then that's a consequence of Peking's intransigence and isolation and not a sign of American imperialism.

At the same time he's telling the Taiwanese that now that Chiang is dead, they have to clean-up their house. I.e. you want our help, make your society more open, more democratic. He's including the South Koreans in that message as well, but it is a wider message for all of Asia about where the US sees the future. (The remarks about hereditary power could also be inferred as a dig at the Lesser Mao).

It might be a gaffe if one considered offending the PRC as the most important thing (which it would have been if Ford had gone there OTL), but the Lesser Mao has taken things past that point by closing off the PRC. In this case it's a challenge to the Lesser Mao, and a message to any of his internal opponents who may wish to go back to a more open international policy, that the door is open.

In that context, the expulsion of Chou (one of the main architects of the opening with Nixon and Kissinger) and McCain could be viewed as the Lesser Mao's direct response to Gavin's overture: the middle finger from the middle kingdom if you like.

Kissinger's departure also relieves Gavin of a political liability he didn't fully realize was there until he tried to get him confirmed as Secretary of State. (OTL Kissinger was used against Ford in the 76 campaign by both Reagan and Carter; Kissinger indicates that he and Ford agreed that he would go in 1977 if Ford was re-elected).

 

[Drew]

I'm looking forward to what happens on November 22nd, given that from the 23rd on (assuming nothing ITTL has changed the relevant event) Generalissimo Francisco Franco will still be dead. The Portugese situation seems likely to throw a monkey wrench into the democratization of Spain.

The right in Spain now has an enemy to focus on, and it can characterise the left in Spain as agents of the Portuguese "sedition." Franco's heirs will have something more than just Franco's ghost to cling to in legitimizing their regime.

Of course, there is a Socialist President in France who is not likely to be well disposed to a post-Franco rightist government.

I also wonder how the Israeli involvement in the Lebanese Civil War will develop as a result of the Phalangist-PLO alliance and an earlier semi-equivalent to Hamas.

I don't see how the Israelis can't help but get drawn into this (see my reply to Dr. Pervez) The question is, how will this affect Israeli domestic politics. Likud is already going around the twist about Soviet troops near the Golan. And right now, there is no Syria to provide a stabilizing force in Lebanon, and I don't think the Israelis would be happy about a Soviet move into Lebanon (say in support of its PLO and Druze clients?).

And I wonder whether Hong Kong, Sikkim or Vietnam is likely to blow up first when the Lesser Mao decides that a good solid war would help distract the Chinese people from the utter obliteration of their culture and the natural disasters of 1975-76.

I don't think he will challenge the UK and US directly in a military confrontation - or the Soviets unless they provoke it - that can only lead to bad results for the PRC. For the same reason he may not want to directly challenge India (although he could make trouble with a Sikkim guerrilla resistance). More likely he'll pick at the edges. Vietnam is a historic enemy of China, there's no love lost between Hanoi and Peking. If he engaged at all, he may give PRC support for an anti-Hanoi government in Laos - though indirectly, effectively isolating Hanoi - perhaps an ethnic separatist guerrilla movement along the DRV's northern border.

One way to look at the Vietnam War ending the way it does ITTL is that the leaders in Hanoi are taking stock of the fact that they are relatively isolated already, supplies from the Soviet Union are not coming at the rate they once did as Suslov looks on the war as a bad investment, and they've got a more serious problem to their North than they do to their South. I wouldn't rule out Le Douc Tho starting to play more of Chou Enlai-Deng Ziaoping role with regard to post-conflict relations between the DRV and the United States, and the US (provided the neo-cons don't come to power) being interested in a dialogue with Hanoi.

I'm pretty sure that the Lesser Mao and his cronies would hear that part as "new residents of one our 'Reeducating Counterrevolutionaries Through Opium Production' camps".

Think Pol Pot on steroids; although the Lesser Mao has better uses for them than outright mass murder. Labour unites the masses in a common struggle for the Revolution, right?

And, is not the opium flower but the messenger that opens forth a hundred thousand revolutions in a hundred thousand minds?

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

It just crossed my mind that a lot of people on the left may not be inclined to buy the Chinese heroin story. The CIA's role in the Golden Triangle had already been exposed and, IIRC, accusations against Red China had previously been brought up by Washington, baselessly. Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf?

I don't know. Any suggestions?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071562/trivia

Francis Ford Coppola considered bringing Marlon Brando back to play Vito Corleone as a young man, convinced that he could play at any age. As he worked on the script, though, he remembered Robert De Niro's exceptional audition for the first "Godfather" and cast him without offering the part to Brando.

The western powers are going to have to act outside the UN and that's going to require co-ordination between Gavin, Heath, Mitterrand and Moro and possibly some other allies. I don't think the West Germans will be ready for this sort of thing. (and incidentally, if the western defence in Europe relies more heavily on the West Germans as other NATO troops are needed elsewhere, won't that set-off alarm bells in Warsaw, Prague, Budapest and Moscow?)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Why does the West need "to act outside the UN" to pull US and British forces out of Syria and what does thid have to do with defense?

The problem with bugging out of Syria with a Soviet presence still there is that it will leave in place a Soviet force which can connect-up a pro-Soviet Syrian government and act as a conduit to its client in Iraq. This will drive King Hussein and the Israelis into absolute hysterics.

Given the repercussions of the US presence in Southeast Asia and of the OTL later Soviet presence in Afghanistan, you have to wonder whether Syria is an opportunity or a trap. Just for starters, it will get Saddam Hussein to think about the Iraqi communists and Khalid to stop thinking about oil embargoes against the West. You're right about the potential risks, but I think a continuing occupation is even more dangerous for the United States, both domestically and internationally.

It would, I think, bring Likud into power faster than OTL, with consequences for the outbreak of a new Middle East war. The Jews of Begin's generation who came from central and Eastern Europe had no more love for the Soviet Union than they did for the Nazis, and they would view an armed Soviet presence on their borders, unrestricted by other forces, as a serious national security threat.

Begin might be less alarmed if that armed Soviet presence was being bogged down in an insurgency. Hell, he might be pleased.

Additionally, for any military action in Cyprus, Gavin is going to need the support of Congress, which is not going to be obliging.

It was the Brits who I had in mind to intervene; it's kind of their business. Also, I don't know how Gavin feels about the CIA's dirty tricks, but Turkes really should get the Trujillo-Diem treatment.

Actually, he did in 1960. Gavin's visit would be the first in 15 years, and with a completely different message.

Then he can't be "the first sitting President of the United States to visit Taiwan."

 

[Shawn Endresen]

This is a delightful timeline, Drew.

A trivial nitpick: the Lt. John S. McCain in question is III, not junior. Junior was, in 1975, a retired Admiral (left service in '72).

 

[johnjcakos]

Truth is I threw that in because I knew there would have to be a change in 1975: you're points are just as valid and I can move it to October; in some ways that makes more sense than trying to do it in the summer.

My question would be what effect would events in Portugal, and a hardening of the right in Spain, have on the electorate in France? These are taking place in France's neighbourhood, and Mitterrand has been trying to stem the Portuguese slide into the Soviet orbit. Would this influence French voters to strengthen the President's hand by giving him more Socialist Deputies, or would it scare them off the PCF?

I could imagine a UDR slogan - pardon the English - "If you like Portugal you'll like France under the Socialists".

Drew, in all honesty, I don't know. As I wrote some time ago when you postulated Mitterrand's election in 1974: if elected, he would have called for elections ASAP and he would have won (OTL's 1981 scenario, with a stronger Communist Party).

It's important to realise that deep down, French people are conservative. They only go left exceptionnally - in 81 after more than 30 years of right-wing government, in 88 (but that was after Mitterrand's re-election and the left got only a relative majority) and in 97 (but Chirac's dissolution was a major political blunder).

I'm just not sure that after 18 months of presidency and the events you describe in your timeline, Mitterrand would have been able to win a majority - unless he could rally the left around him on a symbolic issue, but that would mean a big constitutional crisis I cannot imagine at the moment.

Something to consider, though: in OTL one of Giscard's first reform was to give the right to vote at 18 (as opposed to 21 before). Mitterrand could have done the same, thus expending the electorate with voters likely to be more open to left-wing ideas. That could have been enough for him to get a majority in 75...

 

[Drew]

[quote=Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]It just crossed my mind that a lot of people on the left may not be inclined to buy the Chinese heroin story. The CIA's role in the Golden Triangle had already been exposed and, IIRC, accusations against Red China had previously been brought up by Washington, baselessly. Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf? [/quote]

Yes, I can see that as being a big point on the left and for Mao apologists. They might even characterise the Lesser Mao's war against the drug lords in Burma as the PRC's war on drug traffickers.

Francis Ford Coppola considered bringing Marlon Brando back to play Vito Corleone as a young man, convinced that he could play at any age.

Sounds good.

The western powers are going to have to act outside the UN and that's going to require co-ordination between Gavin, Heath, Mitterrand and Moro and possibly some other allies. I don't think the West Germans will be ready for this sort of thing. (and incidentally, if the western defence in Europe relies more heavily on the West Germans as other NATO troops are needed elsewhere, won't that set-off alarm bells in Warsaw, Prague, Budapest and Moscow?)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Why does the West need "to act outside the UN" to pull US and British forces out of Syria and what does thid have to do with defense?

The UN route hasn’t been working because the USSR has been obstructing any UN action over Cyprus, siding with the Turks in essentially demanding that the Greeks evacuate the island. If British and US military forces become involved, they’ll probably be drawing at least some from NATO forces, leaving the West German a more conspicuous presence in Western Europe. Even that is a temporary situation it can ignite some old and painful memories in central and Eastern Europe.

 

[Meko]

I noticed in a previous post that you didn't spare Lesley Whittle. Will you spare Lesley Molseed or Genette Tate?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed

I doubt the Irish will kill Roger Moore as they can do much more with a hostage than they can with a corpse.

 

[Drew]

I noticed in a previous post that you didn't spare Lesley Whittle. Will you spare Lesley Molseed or Genette Tate?

I'm not sure serial killers would change their activities much in this TL; though as I did with Ted Bundy, I might end their careers earlier, or extend them.

I doubt the Irish will kill Roger Moore as they can do much more with a hostage than they can with a corpse.

I agree; he's too high profile a hostage, and it will remain a public and political issue. Of course his case will inspire imitations, as almost happened with Sean Connery ITTL.

 

[Drew]

I'm working on the next installment and hope to have it done in the next week or so. This has evolved into a highly complex project.

 

[johnjcakos]

Eagerly waiting next instalment.

 

[CobiWann]

I'm working on the next installment and hope to have it done in the next week or so. This has evolved into a highly complex project.

When you first had the idea of writing this TL, I'm willing to wager you had no idea it would turn out to be quite so complex.

Did you ever see, for lack of a better phrase, the history of this TL turning out the way it has? Or did you have the general idea from the get-go?

 

[Fleetlord]

I'm working on the next installment and hope to have it done in the next week or so. This has evolved into a highly complex project.

The level of detail has been impressive -- I'm waiting eagerly.

Say, around this time OTL, I think William Buckley et. al. were advocating for a new conservative third party to compete with, and ultimately supplant the seemingly moribund GOP...it didn't really get anywhere, of course, but with Republicans being hosed even worse than OTL, might such a movement get a little traction? Not at the presidential level, given the electorate's aversion to spoiler candidates and Reagan's decision to run as Republican, but in congressional or state races?

Alternately, might we see something like the "Tea Party" wherein conservatives run against their own establishment as much as the Democrats? (And conveniently bypass their rather tattered party brand in the process.)

 

[GrayAnderson]

This may seem like an odd question, but did Anheuser-Busch end up in deep trouble or did Busch Gardens get stuck in bankruptcy all its own? And as a very odd question, there was an associated development that got going in '74 along with the park, Kingsmill on the James. What of that (as it's a residential project that was moving before things truly crashed, and the land had been purchased several years prior)?

 

[Drew]

When you first had the idea of writing this TL, I'm willing to wager you had no idea it would turn out to be quite so complex.

Did you ever see, for lack of a better phrase, the history of this TL turning out the way it has? Or did you have the general idea from the get-go?

This project began as an alternative path for the 1972 election; essentially what would have happened if Nixon had faced - for lack of a better term - a Democratic "Nixon" instead of McGovern, dispelling the notion that Nixon was unbeatable in 1972.

What has happened since then in this TL has evolved from that situation; much as real history did/does. I also thought that the OTL 70's could have been more unstable than they were with a few changes, and as this TL has progressed the 70's have been a wild ride.

I also wanted to incorporate the idea that, without Congressional interference, Vietnam could have turned out differently.

Right now I'm working toward an alternate history for Ronald Reagan and the conservative wing of the Republican Party.

 

[Drew]

The level of detail has been impressive -- I'm waiting eagerly.

Say, around this time OTL, I think William Buckley et. al. were advocating for a new conservative third party to compete with, and ultimately supplant the seemingly moribund GOP...it didn't really get anywhere, of course, but with Republicans being hosed even worse than OTL, might such a movement get a little traction? Not at the presidential level, given the electorate's aversion to spoiler candidates and Reagan's decision to run as Republican, but in congressional or state races?

Alternately, might we see something like the "Tea Party" wherein conservatives run against their own establishment as much as the Democrats? (And conveniently bypass their rather tattered party brand in the process.)

Do I hear the ghost of the Whig Party knocking on the RNC's door?

OTL Carter has been comparing his 1976 candidacy to the tea party. He and Reagan were both the anti-establishment candidates.

ITTL the result in 1972, and the aftermath, has chilled the atmosphere for spoilers in 1976, especially given the upheaval in the economy and internationally. The Republicans after Nixon and Agnew are demoralized, but ITTL the conservatives have peaked early in California (on display for all), and they still have Reagan as a champion.

OTL Ford beat Reagan, and Ford lost to Carter = which added luster back to Reagan for 1980 (the might have been factor). Look for something different this time; yes I'm tinkering with the idea of putting a big wrench in the two party system, but that has to evolve over time, as the decline of the Whigs and the rise of the Republicans did.

Of course, nothing precludes an ITTL split in the Democratic Party either. So it could develop into a situation where you have on the right something similar to the Liberal Party and the National Party in Australia (within an American context) and the same time on the left something not dissimilar to the Labour Party and the Lib Dems in the UK = both situations translated into American populist right/establishment right and mainstream liberal/populist liberal-progressive incorporated into four national political parties.

Somebody pass the Harvard Plan quick!

 

[Drew]

This may seem like an odd question, but did Anheuser-Busch end up in deep trouble or did Busch Gardens get stuck in bankruptcy all its own? And as a very odd question, there was an associated development that got going in '74 along with the park, Kingsmill on the James. What of that (as it's a residential project that was moving before things truly crashed, and the land had been purchased several years prior)?

Two things with that. One, I was looking at, with the economy shrinking, a lot of "fun spending" of that nature isn't going on. Established entertainment like Disney World would be suffering. New start-ups would face a very bleak environment.

Two, all companies, like Anheuser-Busch are retrenching, preserving their profitability (or minimizing loss) in a very uncertain time. A-B may have seen improved sales in 1973-74 because people were drinking more (that tends to happen in economic down times) but by 1975 that market is dwindling as people have less discretionary income. Their marketing wizards have picked-up on this, so if no one is buying or spending, projects like Busch Gardens are not going forward. The real estate deal would be a real problem because if A-B has invested in the land and done any development on it, they are currently stuck with an asset that they can't sell except at a loss in the current market, while on-going development would be very chancy too. They would be looking at what it costs to hold on, versus the loss of selling to determine their best position.